eBay Success at 18: The Founding of CleverSmart Bricks
Summary: A participant opens the discussion with the topic of succeeding on eBay at the age of 18 and founding CleverSmart Bricks, but does not provide any further details in the post.
How does a hobby at eBay turn into a real business? In this episode, Lisa talks with Leonard Wolke about his business on the global online marketplace. Leo was already selling LEGO on eBay as a teenager and in 2025, at age 18, he was named “Founder of the Year” at the eBay Awards. The episode covers important tips on side hustle, self-employment, online retail, community, growth and the question of how to find the courage to just start on eBay and deliver great service along the way.
Listen in and learn something new!
By the way: “Alles top. Gerne wieder! Der eBay-Podcast rund um Handel & E-Commerce” has been nominated for the German Podcast Award 2026 in the “Brand & Branded” category! We would be very happy if you voted for our podcast! You can vote once a day until April 28.
**Important Links**
- Vote for the German Podcast Award (https://campaigngermany.de/news/beitrag/2731-jetzt-voten-das-sind-die-top-5-fuer-den-besten-brand-amp-branded-podcast-award.html)
- eBay Founder of the Year 2025 Leonard Wolke from CleverSmart Bricks tells his story (https://community.ebay.de/t5/eBay-Mitteilungen/eBay-Gr%C3%BCnder-des-Jahres-2025-Leonard-Wolke-von-CleverSmart/ba-p/5008329)
- eBay for Business on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/ebayforbusiness.de/)
- eBay for Business on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/ebayforbusiness_deutschland/)
- More info about the eBay podcast “Alles top. Gerne wieder!” and our podcast hosts (https://www.ebay.de/verkaeuferportal/news/podcast)
**Chapter markers**
- 00:00:00 to 00:02:33: Intro & Leonard's first entrepreneurial impulses
- 00:02:22 to 00:04:51: LEGO passion & first sales
- 00:04:40 to 00:07:04: Switch from private to business account & eBay Award
- 00:06:53 to 00:09:11: Everyday life, school, and support from parents
- 00:09:01 to 00:12:30: Business model: LEGO sets and minifigures
- 00:12:20 to 00:15:17: Inventory, target groups, and learnings
- 00:15:06 to 00:17:36: Starting out at a young age & mindset
- 00:17:25 to 00:22:33: Customer service, growth, and eBay Award experience
- 00:22:22 to 00:25:37: Social media, community & Leonard's tips for getting started
Leonard: I would say that you can’t really lose anything in these young years. You have your whole big life ahead of you. You have so many opportunities to connect and gain more information. And if things don’t work out, you can always start a degree or an apprenticeship.
Lisa: Welcome to a new episode of "Alles top. Gerne wieder!", the eBay podcast about commerce and e-commerce. My name is Lisa Haak, and today we’re taking a look at how a seller took his business from a "side hustle" all the way to an eBay Award - and all at just 18 years old. With his shop "CleverSmart Bricks," he turned his hobby into a business while still a high school student. Since 2024, he has been selling LEGO bricks in original packaging and LEGO minifigures on eBay, and in 2025 he received the eBay Award in the "Founder of the Year" category. And maybe you’re wondering: How is it even possible to start a business so young? Or maybe you’re already working and want to know how to turn your hobby into your main job? Either way, experienced or not: We can all definitely learn something from Leo today. And that’s why I’m very happy that you’re our guest today. Hello and welcome, Leonard Wolke.
Leonard: Hello Lisa.
Lisa: Quick note from us: Our podcast Alles top. Gerne wieder is on the shortlist for the German Podcast Award 2026 in the Brand and Branded category. And now it’s up to you! We’ve been nominated in one of the audience categories. That means you get to help decide who wins. Until Tuesday, April 28, you can vote for us. Every vote counts, and we’re already saying thank you for your support. You can find the voting link in the show notes as always.
Lisa: Leo, you started a business at a super young age, and I can imagine that if you ask most kids in kindergarten, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” or “What’s your dream?” it’s not, “I want to sell LEGO on eBay.” What was it for you? What did you actually want to be when you were little?
Leonard: Yeah, I never really had a big career goal, but I was very interested in football and always had the idea of becoming a football star, or maybe golf too. I also always had a lot of fun with that. But in general, I always just wanted to be independent, always do my own thing.
Lisa: So the idea of founding something was always in you.
Leonard: Exactly.
Lisa: Leo, how did you decide that LEGO was what would become your business? Where did this LEGO passion come from?
Leonard: I’ve been playing with LEGO since I was two, and I think my first real toy was a LEGO DUPLO set, and since then I think I’ve collected every LEGO set there ever was and that I could get my hands on. I had various Star Wars sets, Ninjago. I’ve been through everything. I also watched everything on YouTube about the series, the video games, and whatever movies came out. And then the decision was pretty clear that my business would start with that too.
Lisa: So really, you turned your hobby into a profession. And I think you could say that if you’ve been working with LEGO since you were two, that’s such long-term experience that you can definitely call it expertise.
Leonard: Definitely.
Lisa: And I mentioned it in the intro: In 2025, you were one of our eBay Awards winners. When you started selling on eBay, did you ever imagine that it would get attention so quickly and be recognized so fast with an eBay Award as Founder of the Year? #00:03:29-8# Leonard: No, I never would have thought it would get that big so quickly.
Lisa: Let’s talk about what "getting big that quickly" means. So we said you started at 18. What was your path to becoming, as we can say, a full-time eBay seller after high school?
Leonard: That’s right, yes. I actually started selling my personal stuff, my private LEGO sets, on eBay when I was 16, and those were used, and then I realized I could make money from it. And then I got much more heavily into the LEGO business in general. Then I bought new sets, took out the minifigures, because minifigures are the main reason people buy a LEGO set, and resold them. Even the sets without minifigures.
Lisa: So you basically realized at 16 that there was a business for you in this LEGO business on eBay and that it helped top up your pocket money a bit?
Leonard: I’d definitely say it topped up my pocket money. And I reinvested that right away.
Lisa: And at 16 you can’t have an eBay account yet. How were you able to sell on eBay back then?
Leonard: I did it through my father’s account. We just did everything together. We also sold personal things of ours from the basement or another room that we no longer needed on eBay. So we basically shared the account and sold together.
Lisa: So your first experience was basically on your father’s account, selling used private items at 16, and then at some point you decided to really start a business and move to a business account?
Leonard: Correct.
Lisa: Yeah, cool. And that’s why you won the award, for what I’d call the courage to build your own business right next to your high school diploma, if I understood that right. We’ll come back to that in a bit. But I’d like to know again: what changed for you after the eBay Award? Was that a moment where you decided even more strongly to focus on eBay and being a seller after school?
Leonard: Definitely. That was one of the main reasons I can do this full-time now. I was supported by eBay, and I also got feedback from various other sellers. I was able to network with others, and in general people started reaching out to me and asking about different things. Yeah, how much is this set worth, for example? And that’s how I built a little community.
Lisa: It’s kind of crazy, right, that you founded a business straight out of your childhood bedroom and now other people ask you for your expertise on LEGO and selling on eBay. And when I first noticed how many people were actually interested in your story, that was our Gen Z event in Berlin last year. The two of us had a little chat on stage and tried to inspire other people from Berlin who were studying or doing an apprenticeship to maybe discover the Leo story for themselves. To me, you felt like a total role model for everyone else in the room. Did you feel that too? Did people come up to you?
Leonard: It was a very special moment, and of course I feel like a small role model, in a way, for my generation, since people did come up to me. Other than that, I also got a lot of positive feedback from people.
Lisa: Yeah, I think so too — both at our award ceremony and at that Gen Z event, a lot of people were simply interested in your story. Because I have to say for myself, I don’t know whether I would have been that brave at 18. Take us a little into your everyday life, how it used to be and how it is now. It was a bit of a side hustle alongside school. So you’d go to school in the morning and then come home and sit at the computer and list eBay items, or how did that work?
Leonard: I live fairly close to my former school, so I could always get up around 7:00 in the morning, then I’d take the orders upstairs for my father. He shipped them while I was at school, and...
Lisa: It’s also always good to have employees in the house directly.
Leonard: Yeah, and free and volunteer too, at least... and then I was at school, checking LEGO deals here and there during breaks, for example, yeah, which set is cheap right now? Which one is worth it? And I also became a bit known at school as the LEGO guy. That was always very funny. And when I got home, I’d do different tasks, for example list a few things or optimize offers. And now after the award I can live that fully. Not going to school anymore is a game changer, in a way, because I...
Lisa: Don’t say that too loudly, Leo.
Leonard: ... because I have a lot more time to grow bigger.
Lisa: Yeah, it’s your main job now, right? And you’ve also decided against an apprenticeship or university for now, and said: Mom, Dad, I’m staying home and doing this here. Did the eBay Award help you justify that a bit to your parents? They were always super involved in your business. But how do parents usually react when their child says, I’ve started a business and this is my job now?
Leonard: Yeah, my father was always, in a way, my right hand and supported me in everything I did. And for my mother, the eBay Award was kind of a sign that I could really follow through with this.
Lisa: Yeah, that reassured her a bit.
Leonard: Exactly.
Lisa: Your father used to support you while you were at school by basically being a bit of back office and packing and shipping. How do your parents support you today?
Leonard: Well, my father is already retired, so he’s always home and really helps me out. For example, when I bring the orders upstairs, he packs them and sometimes even takes them to the post office if the mail carrier doesn’t come. And my father also supports me in marketing, so to speak. He talks about it a lot. I think my whole neighborhood in Hermsdorf basically knows me through my father, because he really tells everyone about it all the time, and if anyone is ever looking for something in a small LEGO shop or a big LEGO shop, he tells them, talks to them, and then he pulls out my card.
Lisa: Leo, for a few episodes now we’ve had a segment in this podcast called, in line with our title, "Alles top. Gerne wieder!", "Gerne nie wieder!" Is there something, maybe also related to starting your business, that you say: wow, gladly, never again! I don’t want to hear that anymore, I want to erase that from my life.
Leonard: For me, a "gladly, never again" is, for example, the idea that you absolutely have to do a degree or an apprenticeship before you can really grow big. You can also just build something of your own right now and, in a way, start your own company.
Lisa: That’s very nicely put. Then let’s just leave that in the past.
Lisa: Leo, for me one really important part of the shift from "well, I just sell things privately" to "I do this professionally" is sourcing products. And I’d really like to talk about how you used to do it, how you do it now, and how many listings you’ve sold by now or have in your inventory. Because you used to sell from your childhood bedroom, and now everything is a bit bigger and more professional. But take us through it a bit. How did you even start sourcing items for eBay back then?
Leonard: There’s a very large LEGO community across different channels, and that’s where listings are tracked, for example. Like this Ninjago set here. And if there’s a good deal, I can grab it right away. But most of the time it’s only minutes long... if I, for example, set my alarm quickly at midnight, then the deal is usually only available at that price for four minutes. You really have to be quick.
Lisa: You really have to be quick. And we can tell the listeners you brought a Ninjago set here, Dragons Rising. Personally, it meant nothing to me, I’m definitely not the target audience. But you told me a little about the set before we started recording. And I think that also says a lot about how you started buying and selling on eBay. Want to walk us through what kind of LEGO set this is?
Leonard: So here we have an example, a LEGO Ninjago set, specifically 71859. That’s the Dragon of Life. It’s a big earth dragon. And there are a total of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 minifigures in it. And some of these minifigures have already appeared before in a similar item. So I take the minifigures out of this set and sell them separately on their own.
Lisa: So on the one hand, you sell original LEGO sets that are rare or not available. And sometimes you also buy sets specifically to sell the individual parts, like the minifigures, separately.
Leonard: Correct, yes. Because some people only need the dragon, because they already have the minifigures — for example a NINJAGO Lloyd, everyone probably has him three or four times already. They don’t need him again in this set and...
Lisa: Yeah, everyone has him three or four times at home.
Leonard: Yeah, probably! And then they only want the dragon. And those are usually the families that buy from me too.
Lisa: And does that mean you make more money overall by selling the dragon and the minifigures than if you just sold the whole set?
Leonard: Right now, yes, because most of the time these are sets that are still being produced. So if, for example, a set is no longer being made after 12 to 18 months, it generally gets more expensive because it’s no longer available from other sellers or in the LEGO online shop itself. And then you have to switch to secondary markets like eBay or wherever. There they’re usually more expensive too.
Lisa: And a LEGO set isn’t small. And if you say you take the figures out, then they probably have to be well organized at home too. If I imagine you did this out of your childhood bedroom: how much of it was actually still a childhood bedroom? Or how much of it is storage and office now?
Leonard: So basically there’s my bed and a wardrobe. And then there are LEGO display cabinets and a few small-parts drawers. And I think I now have just under 4,000 minifigures...
Lisa: Wow!
Leonard: ...and I think about 1,200 different ones among them. They’re all sorted into these small-parts drawers.
Lisa: Wow, incredible. I think just the sheer number makes it totally clear that this is no longer just a small side hustle and a hobby. 4,000 items — that’s already beyond your room, right?
Leonard: Exactly. So you have to picture a two-room apartment, meaning two floors. And so, in a way, I have one room on the first floor and another room on the second floor. And then I also have an external basement that was made available to me.
Lisa: Leo, I’m really curious — if we talk again in a year, maybe you’ll still be doing everything from home, or maybe you’ll already have rented storage space or an office. Maybe your parents will eventually say: Leo, that’s enough of the LEGO at home.
Leonard: Yeah, I think the podcast studio could be used very well for that.
Lisa: Okay, we’ll talk about that later. Leo, was there ever a purchase that didn’t pay off at all for you? Like you thought, wow, I’m definitely going to make money with this, or this will be in huge demand, and in the end it’s still just sitting at home?
Leonard: Basically, I think I’ve sold everything I ever bought before I really won the award. But there are always sets that don’t really do well. And back then I sometimes bought a bit carelessly too. For example, there are YouTubers who say you absolutely have to buy this set, and then several thousand people see that and buy it all. Then you don’t have such a big margin and you end up making a loss rather than a profit.
Lisa: So you really have to be a pro to tell what’s actually worth it and what people just say is worth it.
Leonard: Exactly.
Lisa: So you just said that families buy from you, and certainly collectors too, looking for special figures. But who exactly is your target group on eBay?
Leonard: I think I have a lot of female customers. I’d say those are usually mothers or grandmothers shopping for the kids, grandchildren, or children, or collectors too — collectors who would spend up to €200 on a single minifigure, for example.
Lisa: Do you think your young age was also an advantage when starting a business? You just said you approached buying sets a bit carelessly, but did you also approach starting a business with that same ease?
Leonard: There are definitely a few good advantages that come with being this young. For one thing, I can pick things up really well. I grew up with technology, I understand bureaucracy. For example, I also did a school internship at an accounting office. That means I was able to get into the bureaucratic hurdles really well. In general, there’s actually enough on YouTube these days, and if you know your way around, you can find the right videos there too.
Lisa: I find that super interesting. In preparation for this episode, I also looked at some numbers for your generation. And one in two people between 14 and 25 can imagine starting a business. So a bit like you, who said, when I grow up, I definitely want to do something of my own. But only 15% of Gen Z actually plan to start a business next year. And I have to say, I really relate to that. Back when I was studying, I studied entrepreneurship and innovation management and was always convinced: I’m definitely going to start something. At the latest after university, I’ll found something. And I have to admit, I didn’t dare at all. I ended up at eBay and I’m very, very happy about that. But when I heard your story and then looked at the numbers showing that one in two people aged 14 to 25 plan to do it, I think that’s amazing. But then there’s the gap: who actually does it? And you actually did it. What was the reason you dared to, so that you’re one of those 15% who actually went through with it?
Leonard: I’d say you can’t really lose anything at that young age. You have your whole life ahead of you. You have so many opportunities to network and gain more information. And if things don’t work out, you can still start a degree or an apprenticeship.
Lisa: Super interesting, because back then I thought: No, you need an apprenticeship or a degree to have the knowledge to even start a business. But you’re completely right. You’re the generation that grew up with this. ChatGPT, YouTube — you get all the information, so actually fewer hurdles than before, maybe?
Leonard: I’d definitely say yes. Everything is basically available online.
Lisa: Where do you get the motivation to do more or build something bigger from what has so far been a side hustle?
Leonard: One big motivation is customer satisfaction, for example. I think I have a 99.9% positive rating and...
Lisa: Wow, congratulations!
Leonard: Thank you! Some of the feedback is really, really positive. And also from my father, because he supports me so much. He wants to make this really big, probably even bigger than I can imagine.
Lisa: But what’s your vision there then? How should the shop continue if he wants to make it really big?
Leonard: I think one of the biggest LEGO online shops in all of Berlin would be really nice. I definitely want to grow a bit internationally too. Maybe also ship to the US, since the US is the biggest LEGO market in the world.
Lisa: Okay, interesting.
Leonard: And generally just offer a lot more LEGO sets and LEGO minifigures. Because the capital probably still isn’t enough for all sets at the moment.
Lisa: That’s an interesting point, because capital is super important when starting a business. How was that for you? Did you have to earn money to buy LEGO, or how did you start with seed capital?
Leonard: Back then I actually saved my pocket money and put it into LEGO sets. And the good thing about LEGO sets is that they have a relatively good resale value. Meaning I sold them privately. Then I basically had starting capital.
Lisa: That you earned yourself.
Leonard: Exactly, which I then put in.
Lisa: Interesting! Leo, we met last year at the award ceremony for our eBay Awards. And of course they’re coming back in 2026 too. We’ve changed the categories a bit, but Founder of the Year is definitely in there again. Bad news: you can’t win again. But would you recommend that people apply, or what was your application like?
Leonard: You have to apply yourself and nominate yourself, and I can highly recommend it, because even if you’re not selected, you get to reflect on your own business once. What was good? What wasn’t good? What can I improve a bit more? And once you go through that, you also kind of get a new idea for the future.
Lisa: So you basically took a look at your story and your current eBay business and then submitted it. I think it’s really interesting that you say it’s also a moment of reflection, looking at your own business. And we have all kinds of categories, from live sellers to community heroes and so on. We can also link in the show notes where you can apply and for which categories, and then see which category you fit into. And just take your chance. Because can you walk us through what it was like when you won? What did you experience?
Leonard: So it was... I mean, the day, I got a call and at first I was completely shocked. I didn’t really understand it at all. Then I went to my father: Someone from eBay is on the line here. And then it was said out loud: Yes, I won the Founder of the Year Award, and then the coffee overflowed, the toast burned. My father was very excited. And I had a film crew with me, they filmed a video of me and my shop. That’s also online on YouTube directly from eBay. And then I was invited to Dreilinden to eBay headquarters and met all kinds of people there, including from the collecting department, because I sell LEGO. And then there was a big show and a stage and I had to give a speech. That was very, very cool. And then in the end I won €5,000, €1,000 in sales bonus...
Lisa: Exactly, so instead of a pure sales fee.
Leonard: ...so I didn’t have to pay any selling fees. And that was very, very special, yes.
Lisa: I think it’s really lovely that you mention the financial part, which is genuinely cool, with the €5,000 and €1,000 no sales fees, as the last thing, and that the experience around it and also meeting eBay employees, but also other sellers that evening, was probably the real experience. And I also felt that it motivated you a bit and pushed you further in being a seller, am I right?
Leonard: Definitely. I think the award is really more about the being there and networking with the other sellers and with eBay directly.
Lisa: That means if you also want to win an eBay Award out there, you can still apply until May 31. This year’s categories are Founder of the Year, eBay Live Seller of the Year, eBay Veteran, an award for responsible action, international trade is recognized, we’re looking for Community Heroes and Innovators of the Year.
Lisa: You already said your father walks around with business cards, but that can’t be the only sales channel, even if it’s certainly a very effective one. Do you use social media too, to build reach and community?
Leonard: I automatically use eBay’s direct posting to certain channels, for example, or also Instagram. And that works really well too. eBay automatically posts which listing is published. Usually it’s three listings per day. And I even went viral once there, for example on Pinterest. And then I sold one figure seven times.
Lisa: So you have a business account on Pinterest and on Instagram linked to your eBay business account, probably directly in eBay and automatically the items you have online or that you newly list are then posted on the platform, right?
Leonard: Exactly, yes.
Lisa: And what’s it like when you go viral like that? So what do you go viral with?
Leonard: I, I, to be honest, I didn’t even notice. Then suddenly I saw that a minifigure had sold seven times in one day. And then I checked what was going on on Pinterest. I went there and suddenly had 30,000 views on that post, and I was a bit shocked, like, just from eBay’s automated posting.
Lisa: Your father must hand out a lot of business cards to match that number. Cool. And we already talked once about our Gen Z event last year. What we also announced at that Gen Z event is that we have an eBay Discord channel, which also goes a bit in the direction of social media and community building. And you’re active on that Discord channel too, and there are lots of sellers or people who want to become sellers hanging out there. Do you also exchange ideas with others there about your eBay business or about starting a business?
Leonard: Sometimes I do exchange ideas with people on Discord, definitely. Even if I have a question, it’s often already been asked, and then I can scroll up a bit and see it right away. There are a lot of really good mods there.
Lisa: So it’s kind of the community building that you already know from your LEGO bubble, let’s say, but there on Discord around eBay and selling on eBay.
Leonard: Exactly, yes.
Lisa: What would you advise someone — whether in that Discord channel or now among those listening — who is thinking about turning a hobby into a profession or becoming an eBay seller? This is exactly my next step, but I still don’t quite dare. What’s your recommendation to people who are at exactly that point right now?
Leonard: Simply put, definitely just try it out. And even if it fails, you can keep at it and then dive deeper into the different things. Nowadays it’s really, really easy to start a business, and there are far fewer hurdles than before, and you just have to begin and then stick with it.
Lisa: Just start and then stick with it! Leo, I want to thank you very much. It was super cool that you came to the podcast today. But I think a lot of people who listened to us will take a bit of your courage with them, and some of that ease you somehow had at 16 alongside school. I’m really curious to see what of the vision you have with your father will be implemented in a year. And maybe we’ll just talk again then, and otherwise I wish you continued very, very much success!
Leonard: Thank you very much, it was an honor!
Lisa: Welcome to a new episode of "Alles top. Gerne wieder!", the eBay podcast about commerce and e-commerce. My name is Lisa Haak, and today we’re taking a look at how a seller took his business from a "side hustle" all the way to an eBay Award - and all at just 18 years old. With his shop "CleverSmart Bricks," he turned his hobby into a business while still a high school student. Since 2024, he has been selling LEGO bricks in original packaging and LEGO minifigures on eBay, and in 2025 he received the eBay Award in the "Founder of the Year" category. And maybe you’re wondering: How is it even possible to start a business so young? Or maybe you’re already working and want to know how to turn your hobby into your main job? Either way, experienced or not: We can all definitely learn something from Leo today. And that’s why I’m very happy that you’re our guest today. Hello and welcome, Leonard Wolke.
Leonard: Hello Lisa.
Lisa: Quick note from us: Our podcast Alles top. Gerne wieder is on the shortlist for the German Podcast Award 2026 in the Brand and Branded category. And now it’s up to you! We’ve been nominated in one of the audience categories. That means you get to help decide who wins. Until Tuesday, April 28, you can vote for us. Every vote counts, and we’re already saying thank you for your support. You can find the voting link in the show notes as always.
Lisa: Leo, you started a business at a super young age, and I can imagine that if you ask most kids in kindergarten, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” or “What’s your dream?” it’s not, “I want to sell LEGO on eBay.” What was it for you? What did you actually want to be when you were little?
Leonard: Yeah, I never really had a big career goal, but I was very interested in football and always had the idea of becoming a football star, or maybe golf too. I also always had a lot of fun with that. But in general, I always just wanted to be independent, always do my own thing.
Lisa: So the idea of founding something was always in you.
Leonard: Exactly.
Lisa: Leo, how did you decide that LEGO was what would become your business? Where did this LEGO passion come from?
Leonard: I’ve been playing with LEGO since I was two, and I think my first real toy was a LEGO DUPLO set, and since then I think I’ve collected every LEGO set there ever was and that I could get my hands on. I had various Star Wars sets, Ninjago. I’ve been through everything. I also watched everything on YouTube about the series, the video games, and whatever movies came out. And then the decision was pretty clear that my business would start with that too.
Lisa: So really, you turned your hobby into a profession. And I think you could say that if you’ve been working with LEGO since you were two, that’s such long-term experience that you can definitely call it expertise.
Leonard: Definitely.
Lisa: And I mentioned it in the intro: In 2025, you were one of our eBay Awards winners. When you started selling on eBay, did you ever imagine that it would get attention so quickly and be recognized so fast with an eBay Award as Founder of the Year? #00:03:29-8# Leonard: No, I never would have thought it would get that big so quickly.
Lisa: Let’s talk about what "getting big that quickly" means. So we said you started at 18. What was your path to becoming, as we can say, a full-time eBay seller after high school?
Leonard: That’s right, yes. I actually started selling my personal stuff, my private LEGO sets, on eBay when I was 16, and those were used, and then I realized I could make money from it. And then I got much more heavily into the LEGO business in general. Then I bought new sets, took out the minifigures, because minifigures are the main reason people buy a LEGO set, and resold them. Even the sets without minifigures.
Lisa: So you basically realized at 16 that there was a business for you in this LEGO business on eBay and that it helped top up your pocket money a bit?
Leonard: I’d definitely say it topped up my pocket money. And I reinvested that right away.
Lisa: And at 16 you can’t have an eBay account yet. How were you able to sell on eBay back then?
Leonard: I did it through my father’s account. We just did everything together. We also sold personal things of ours from the basement or another room that we no longer needed on eBay. So we basically shared the account and sold together.
Lisa: So your first experience was basically on your father’s account, selling used private items at 16, and then at some point you decided to really start a business and move to a business account?
Leonard: Correct.
Lisa: Yeah, cool. And that’s why you won the award, for what I’d call the courage to build your own business right next to your high school diploma, if I understood that right. We’ll come back to that in a bit. But I’d like to know again: what changed for you after the eBay Award? Was that a moment where you decided even more strongly to focus on eBay and being a seller after school?
Leonard: Definitely. That was one of the main reasons I can do this full-time now. I was supported by eBay, and I also got feedback from various other sellers. I was able to network with others, and in general people started reaching out to me and asking about different things. Yeah, how much is this set worth, for example? And that’s how I built a little community.
Lisa: It’s kind of crazy, right, that you founded a business straight out of your childhood bedroom and now other people ask you for your expertise on LEGO and selling on eBay. And when I first noticed how many people were actually interested in your story, that was our Gen Z event in Berlin last year. The two of us had a little chat on stage and tried to inspire other people from Berlin who were studying or doing an apprenticeship to maybe discover the Leo story for themselves. To me, you felt like a total role model for everyone else in the room. Did you feel that too? Did people come up to you?
Leonard: It was a very special moment, and of course I feel like a small role model, in a way, for my generation, since people did come up to me. Other than that, I also got a lot of positive feedback from people.
Lisa: Yeah, I think so too — both at our award ceremony and at that Gen Z event, a lot of people were simply interested in your story. Because I have to say for myself, I don’t know whether I would have been that brave at 18. Take us a little into your everyday life, how it used to be and how it is now. It was a bit of a side hustle alongside school. So you’d go to school in the morning and then come home and sit at the computer and list eBay items, or how did that work?
Leonard: I live fairly close to my former school, so I could always get up around 7:00 in the morning, then I’d take the orders upstairs for my father. He shipped them while I was at school, and...
Lisa: It’s also always good to have employees in the house directly.
Leonard: Yeah, and free and volunteer too, at least... and then I was at school, checking LEGO deals here and there during breaks, for example, yeah, which set is cheap right now? Which one is worth it? And I also became a bit known at school as the LEGO guy. That was always very funny. And when I got home, I’d do different tasks, for example list a few things or optimize offers. And now after the award I can live that fully. Not going to school anymore is a game changer, in a way, because I...
Lisa: Don’t say that too loudly, Leo.
Leonard: ... because I have a lot more time to grow bigger.
Lisa: Yeah, it’s your main job now, right? And you’ve also decided against an apprenticeship or university for now, and said: Mom, Dad, I’m staying home and doing this here. Did the eBay Award help you justify that a bit to your parents? They were always super involved in your business. But how do parents usually react when their child says, I’ve started a business and this is my job now?
Leonard: Yeah, my father was always, in a way, my right hand and supported me in everything I did. And for my mother, the eBay Award was kind of a sign that I could really follow through with this.
Lisa: Yeah, that reassured her a bit.
Leonard: Exactly.
Lisa: Your father used to support you while you were at school by basically being a bit of back office and packing and shipping. How do your parents support you today?
Leonard: Well, my father is already retired, so he’s always home and really helps me out. For example, when I bring the orders upstairs, he packs them and sometimes even takes them to the post office if the mail carrier doesn’t come. And my father also supports me in marketing, so to speak. He talks about it a lot. I think my whole neighborhood in Hermsdorf basically knows me through my father, because he really tells everyone about it all the time, and if anyone is ever looking for something in a small LEGO shop or a big LEGO shop, he tells them, talks to them, and then he pulls out my card.
Lisa: Leo, for a few episodes now we’ve had a segment in this podcast called, in line with our title, "Alles top. Gerne wieder!", "Gerne nie wieder!" Is there something, maybe also related to starting your business, that you say: wow, gladly, never again! I don’t want to hear that anymore, I want to erase that from my life.
Leonard: For me, a "gladly, never again" is, for example, the idea that you absolutely have to do a degree or an apprenticeship before you can really grow big. You can also just build something of your own right now and, in a way, start your own company.
Lisa: That’s very nicely put. Then let’s just leave that in the past.
Lisa: Leo, for me one really important part of the shift from "well, I just sell things privately" to "I do this professionally" is sourcing products. And I’d really like to talk about how you used to do it, how you do it now, and how many listings you’ve sold by now or have in your inventory. Because you used to sell from your childhood bedroom, and now everything is a bit bigger and more professional. But take us through it a bit. How did you even start sourcing items for eBay back then?
Leonard: There’s a very large LEGO community across different channels, and that’s where listings are tracked, for example. Like this Ninjago set here. And if there’s a good deal, I can grab it right away. But most of the time it’s only minutes long... if I, for example, set my alarm quickly at midnight, then the deal is usually only available at that price for four minutes. You really have to be quick.
Lisa: You really have to be quick. And we can tell the listeners you brought a Ninjago set here, Dragons Rising. Personally, it meant nothing to me, I’m definitely not the target audience. But you told me a little about the set before we started recording. And I think that also says a lot about how you started buying and selling on eBay. Want to walk us through what kind of LEGO set this is?
Leonard: So here we have an example, a LEGO Ninjago set, specifically 71859. That’s the Dragon of Life. It’s a big earth dragon. And there are a total of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 minifigures in it. And some of these minifigures have already appeared before in a similar item. So I take the minifigures out of this set and sell them separately on their own.
Lisa: So on the one hand, you sell original LEGO sets that are rare or not available. And sometimes you also buy sets specifically to sell the individual parts, like the minifigures, separately.
Leonard: Correct, yes. Because some people only need the dragon, because they already have the minifigures — for example a NINJAGO Lloyd, everyone probably has him three or four times already. They don’t need him again in this set and...
Lisa: Yeah, everyone has him three or four times at home.
Leonard: Yeah, probably! And then they only want the dragon. And those are usually the families that buy from me too.
Lisa: And does that mean you make more money overall by selling the dragon and the minifigures than if you just sold the whole set?
Leonard: Right now, yes, because most of the time these are sets that are still being produced. So if, for example, a set is no longer being made after 12 to 18 months, it generally gets more expensive because it’s no longer available from other sellers or in the LEGO online shop itself. And then you have to switch to secondary markets like eBay or wherever. There they’re usually more expensive too.
Lisa: And a LEGO set isn’t small. And if you say you take the figures out, then they probably have to be well organized at home too. If I imagine you did this out of your childhood bedroom: how much of it was actually still a childhood bedroom? Or how much of it is storage and office now?
Leonard: So basically there’s my bed and a wardrobe. And then there are LEGO display cabinets and a few small-parts drawers. And I think I now have just under 4,000 minifigures...
Lisa: Wow!
Leonard: ...and I think about 1,200 different ones among them. They’re all sorted into these small-parts drawers.
Lisa: Wow, incredible. I think just the sheer number makes it totally clear that this is no longer just a small side hustle and a hobby. 4,000 items — that’s already beyond your room, right?
Leonard: Exactly. So you have to picture a two-room apartment, meaning two floors. And so, in a way, I have one room on the first floor and another room on the second floor. And then I also have an external basement that was made available to me.
Lisa: Leo, I’m really curious — if we talk again in a year, maybe you’ll still be doing everything from home, or maybe you’ll already have rented storage space or an office. Maybe your parents will eventually say: Leo, that’s enough of the LEGO at home.
Leonard: Yeah, I think the podcast studio could be used very well for that.
Lisa: Okay, we’ll talk about that later. Leo, was there ever a purchase that didn’t pay off at all for you? Like you thought, wow, I’m definitely going to make money with this, or this will be in huge demand, and in the end it’s still just sitting at home?
Leonard: Basically, I think I’ve sold everything I ever bought before I really won the award. But there are always sets that don’t really do well. And back then I sometimes bought a bit carelessly too. For example, there are YouTubers who say you absolutely have to buy this set, and then several thousand people see that and buy it all. Then you don’t have such a big margin and you end up making a loss rather than a profit.
Lisa: So you really have to be a pro to tell what’s actually worth it and what people just say is worth it.
Leonard: Exactly.
Lisa: So you just said that families buy from you, and certainly collectors too, looking for special figures. But who exactly is your target group on eBay?
Leonard: I think I have a lot of female customers. I’d say those are usually mothers or grandmothers shopping for the kids, grandchildren, or children, or collectors too — collectors who would spend up to €200 on a single minifigure, for example.
Lisa: Do you think your young age was also an advantage when starting a business? You just said you approached buying sets a bit carelessly, but did you also approach starting a business with that same ease?
Leonard: There are definitely a few good advantages that come with being this young. For one thing, I can pick things up really well. I grew up with technology, I understand bureaucracy. For example, I also did a school internship at an accounting office. That means I was able to get into the bureaucratic hurdles really well. In general, there’s actually enough on YouTube these days, and if you know your way around, you can find the right videos there too.
Lisa: I find that super interesting. In preparation for this episode, I also looked at some numbers for your generation. And one in two people between 14 and 25 can imagine starting a business. So a bit like you, who said, when I grow up, I definitely want to do something of my own. But only 15% of Gen Z actually plan to start a business next year. And I have to say, I really relate to that. Back when I was studying, I studied entrepreneurship and innovation management and was always convinced: I’m definitely going to start something. At the latest after university, I’ll found something. And I have to admit, I didn’t dare at all. I ended up at eBay and I’m very, very happy about that. But when I heard your story and then looked at the numbers showing that one in two people aged 14 to 25 plan to do it, I think that’s amazing. But then there’s the gap: who actually does it? And you actually did it. What was the reason you dared to, so that you’re one of those 15% who actually went through with it?
Leonard: I’d say you can’t really lose anything at that young age. You have your whole life ahead of you. You have so many opportunities to network and gain more information. And if things don’t work out, you can still start a degree or an apprenticeship.
Lisa: Super interesting, because back then I thought: No, you need an apprenticeship or a degree to have the knowledge to even start a business. But you’re completely right. You’re the generation that grew up with this. ChatGPT, YouTube — you get all the information, so actually fewer hurdles than before, maybe?
Leonard: I’d definitely say yes. Everything is basically available online.
Lisa: Where do you get the motivation to do more or build something bigger from what has so far been a side hustle?
Leonard: One big motivation is customer satisfaction, for example. I think I have a 99.9% positive rating and...
Lisa: Wow, congratulations!
Leonard: Thank you! Some of the feedback is really, really positive. And also from my father, because he supports me so much. He wants to make this really big, probably even bigger than I can imagine.
Lisa: But what’s your vision there then? How should the shop continue if he wants to make it really big?
Leonard: I think one of the biggest LEGO online shops in all of Berlin would be really nice. I definitely want to grow a bit internationally too. Maybe also ship to the US, since the US is the biggest LEGO market in the world.
Lisa: Okay, interesting.
Leonard: And generally just offer a lot more LEGO sets and LEGO minifigures. Because the capital probably still isn’t enough for all sets at the moment.
Lisa: That’s an interesting point, because capital is super important when starting a business. How was that for you? Did you have to earn money to buy LEGO, or how did you start with seed capital?
Leonard: Back then I actually saved my pocket money and put it into LEGO sets. And the good thing about LEGO sets is that they have a relatively good resale value. Meaning I sold them privately. Then I basically had starting capital.
Lisa: That you earned yourself.
Leonard: Exactly, which I then put in.
Lisa: Interesting! Leo, we met last year at the award ceremony for our eBay Awards. And of course they’re coming back in 2026 too. We’ve changed the categories a bit, but Founder of the Year is definitely in there again. Bad news: you can’t win again. But would you recommend that people apply, or what was your application like?
Leonard: You have to apply yourself and nominate yourself, and I can highly recommend it, because even if you’re not selected, you get to reflect on your own business once. What was good? What wasn’t good? What can I improve a bit more? And once you go through that, you also kind of get a new idea for the future.
Lisa: So you basically took a look at your story and your current eBay business and then submitted it. I think it’s really interesting that you say it’s also a moment of reflection, looking at your own business. And we have all kinds of categories, from live sellers to community heroes and so on. We can also link in the show notes where you can apply and for which categories, and then see which category you fit into. And just take your chance. Because can you walk us through what it was like when you won? What did you experience?
Leonard: So it was... I mean, the day, I got a call and at first I was completely shocked. I didn’t really understand it at all. Then I went to my father: Someone from eBay is on the line here. And then it was said out loud: Yes, I won the Founder of the Year Award, and then the coffee overflowed, the toast burned. My father was very excited. And I had a film crew with me, they filmed a video of me and my shop. That’s also online on YouTube directly from eBay. And then I was invited to Dreilinden to eBay headquarters and met all kinds of people there, including from the collecting department, because I sell LEGO. And then there was a big show and a stage and I had to give a speech. That was very, very cool. And then in the end I won €5,000, €1,000 in sales bonus...
Lisa: Exactly, so instead of a pure sales fee.
Leonard: ...so I didn’t have to pay any selling fees. And that was very, very special, yes.
Lisa: I think it’s really lovely that you mention the financial part, which is genuinely cool, with the €5,000 and €1,000 no sales fees, as the last thing, and that the experience around it and also meeting eBay employees, but also other sellers that evening, was probably the real experience. And I also felt that it motivated you a bit and pushed you further in being a seller, am I right?
Leonard: Definitely. I think the award is really more about the being there and networking with the other sellers and with eBay directly.
Lisa: That means if you also want to win an eBay Award out there, you can still apply until May 31. This year’s categories are Founder of the Year, eBay Live Seller of the Year, eBay Veteran, an award for responsible action, international trade is recognized, we’re looking for Community Heroes and Innovators of the Year.
Lisa: You already said your father walks around with business cards, but that can’t be the only sales channel, even if it’s certainly a very effective one. Do you use social media too, to build reach and community?
Leonard: I automatically use eBay’s direct posting to certain channels, for example, or also Instagram. And that works really well too. eBay automatically posts which listing is published. Usually it’s three listings per day. And I even went viral once there, for example on Pinterest. And then I sold one figure seven times.
Lisa: So you have a business account on Pinterest and on Instagram linked to your eBay business account, probably directly in eBay and automatically the items you have online or that you newly list are then posted on the platform, right?
Leonard: Exactly, yes.
Lisa: And what’s it like when you go viral like that? So what do you go viral with?
Leonard: I, I, to be honest, I didn’t even notice. Then suddenly I saw that a minifigure had sold seven times in one day. And then I checked what was going on on Pinterest. I went there and suddenly had 30,000 views on that post, and I was a bit shocked, like, just from eBay’s automated posting.
Lisa: Your father must hand out a lot of business cards to match that number. Cool. And we already talked once about our Gen Z event last year. What we also announced at that Gen Z event is that we have an eBay Discord channel, which also goes a bit in the direction of social media and community building. And you’re active on that Discord channel too, and there are lots of sellers or people who want to become sellers hanging out there. Do you also exchange ideas with others there about your eBay business or about starting a business?
Leonard: Sometimes I do exchange ideas with people on Discord, definitely. Even if I have a question, it’s often already been asked, and then I can scroll up a bit and see it right away. There are a lot of really good mods there.
Lisa: So it’s kind of the community building that you already know from your LEGO bubble, let’s say, but there on Discord around eBay and selling on eBay.
Leonard: Exactly, yes.
Lisa: What would you advise someone — whether in that Discord channel or now among those listening — who is thinking about turning a hobby into a profession or becoming an eBay seller? This is exactly my next step, but I still don’t quite dare. What’s your recommendation to people who are at exactly that point right now?
Leonard: Simply put, definitely just try it out. And even if it fails, you can keep at it and then dive deeper into the different things. Nowadays it’s really, really easy to start a business, and there are far fewer hurdles than before, and you just have to begin and then stick with it.
Lisa: Just start and then stick with it! Leo, I want to thank you very much. It was super cool that you came to the podcast today. But I think a lot of people who listened to us will take a bit of your courage with them, and some of that ease you somehow had at 16 alongside school. I’m really curious to see what of the vision you have with your father will be implemented in a year. And maybe we’ll just talk again then, and otherwise I wish you continued very, very much success!
Leonard: Thank you very much, it was an honor!
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