Selling internationally through online marketplaces
Selling internationally offers the opportunity to sell more and generate higher revenue. However, this only makes sense if demand for the products in the respective market is large enough and no high extra costs are incurred for sellers. For analyzing international online marketplaces, eBay offers the tool Terapeak, for example. Before merchants offer their products on international eBay websites, they can use the tool to learn more about competitors and demand in the respective market. Together with Christian Salza, Managing Director Global Expansion at the Berlin Brand Group, and Isabell Butterwegge from eBay, we look into the following questions in this episode: How do you expand in e-commerce worldwide? Is it even worth it for me? And how do I build my brand internationally?
**Important links**
Berlin Brand Group
Selling internationally on eBay
Terapeak
European sales accelerator by WebInterpret
eBay Fulfillment with Orange Connex
David: Hello dear listeners, and welcome to our new podcast episode for our merchants and, of course, everyone who wants to become one. I'm very happy that you've tuned in again, and I'm just as happy that my podcast colleague Tino is here again.
Tino: Yes, hello David, I'm happy too, and hello to our dear listeners as well. In today's episode, we'd like to introduce you to a very exciting topic, namely international trade. What exactly does that mean? How do you internationalize in e-commerce? And is it actually worth it for me?
David: To answer these questions, we've invited two guests for you today. One is probably already familiar to our listeners. And that is our host Isabell Butterwegge, who is with us in a different role in the studio today and will be talking about what international trade looks like from eBay's perspective. Hello Isabell.
Isabell: Hello David. Hello Tino, I'm really happy that you invited me today and that I get to sit on the other side.
David: Yes, hello Isabell, and we also have another guest here, Christian Salzer, Managing Director Global Expansion at the Berlin Brain Group, and a warm hello to you as well!
Christian: Yes, hello everyone and thank you very much for the invitation.
David: Christian, could you please say a little more about yourself for our listeners? Your role at the Berlin Brand Group and perhaps about the Berlin Brand Group itself?
Christian: Yes, of course. The Berlin Brands Group is a house of brands. It started in Berlin, on eBay, nearly 15 years ago, and has since grown into a powerhouse in European eCommerce. We currently have over 52 brands in our portfolio, 15 of which are our own brands that we've built over the years. And we acquired 42 brands in the last 18 months, sell all over the world, and do that very successfully. And my role at BBG: I am responsible for growth there as Managing Director Global Expansion, through global expansion, meaning through internationalization, or through acquisitions, namely M&A. So a very, very exciting area. And before I came to BBG, I did a lot in marketing. I spent 13 years at Colgate, eight of them in the US, then came back to Germany. I then held the CMO role at Home24, among other things, and afterwards led Home24 as CEO and also sold it. And that's how I gradually got more and more into M&A and company sales and acquisitions, and now I'm delighted to lead that at BBG.
Tino: Yes, and Isabell, when you're not here with the two of us as a podcast host, what is your role at eBay and what tasks do you have there?
Isabell: I'm in Product Engagement at eBay and take care of the seller experience for our business sellers in Europe. That means I work closely with our developers, and we work on tools and features for our business merchants. And when I started at eBay back then, I also wrote my master's thesis together with eBay about barriers in international trade. That's what we want to talk about today. Exactly. And since then I've been involved in various CBT projects. CBT, to explain that briefly again, stands for Cross Border Trade. Exactly. That's how we basically abbreviate international trade.
David: Very nice. Christian, you just said that you have a lot of experience in international trade and in internationalizing trade. So I'd like to start with you and a fairly general question. Quite simply: how do you actually internationalize in e-commerce?
Christian: Exactly how and when is, I think, the exciting question. When, I think, is when local potential has been exhausted and/or you know that you have enormous international potential, because before you of course expand internationally, you should also be clear that it's usually a bit more complicated than in your home market. That means you can and should first check demand in advance: how big is it actually? Is the market worth it for me? What are the logistical and regulatory challenges? What are the customer needs and special factors I need to consider in my communication? Can I retain my customers in the long term? What is the competition like? That's a lot of work and a lot of preparation. I think that's not to be underestimated. But it's also enormous potential, and it has never been easier to internationalize than it is today. So I'd say we always encourage the merchants we talk to: do it, try it. It's never been this easy, and if you're well prepared, you'll have great chances of success.
Tino: Then I'll pass the ball to Isabell right away: how does international trade work on eBay? Maybe to start with, just generally speaking.
Isabell: Yes, generally speaking, we are of course a global marketplace. That means, put simply, we enable merchants to make their inventory visible globally. We now have over 140 million active buyers worldwide and more than 20 eBay sites in different countries, which I can use to list my inventory, make it visible, and ultimately sell it globally.
Tino: And Christian, how do I build my brand internationally?
Christian: Yes, in the first step I should be clear about what my brand actually stands for. Is that relevant in the target market, and can I really deliver that with the new setup? So, of course, you should consistently ensure a good customer experience across all touchpoints. That means the product description has to be very good. The images too, of course, in the home market. But they can also differ in some cases, especially if I have descriptions or text in the images. Delivery times have to be right, customer service has to be good, and returns processing and processing times should also be good. And in the end, for a brand to really be perceived as a brand internationally and for the customer to remember it, it should touch the customer emotionally. That means there has to be at least a customer experience that is really good and actually exceeds expectations, because only then will the customer remember it. Otherwise it just gets lost in the multitude of topics happening nowadays. That means I have to move the customer emotionally. And I always ask my employees: how can we turn a customer into a fan? And if we answer that question correctly and really identify 1 or 2 touchpoints where we truly convince, where we turn the customer into a fan, then we can also build an international brand.
Isabell: Isabell, if I’ve now completed the preparation Christian just described and say okay, I’m going into an international market, can we say that there are certain markets that are particularly well suited for eBay merchants, for certain categories, for example?
Isabell: Yes, definitely. We can also see that in the numbers. Not every product fits every market, and in some markets there is higher demand for certain categories. For example, in France we see that products in the health and beauty sector perform particularly well, as do cameras and photography. And to add a little anecdote here: I recently spoke with a merchant who had just started with international trade, and he first offered shipping to other countries. In Germany, among other things, he has chicken coops in his product portfolio, which are not actually a sales driver here locally. And then he sold to Italy, and by now chicken coops are one of his best-performing products because apparently there is a great demand for them in Italy, and Christian, you just put it nicely with "turning customers into fans." In his case, it actually was enough to win fans simply by offering the product.
David: Very nice. I think, though, that won't be the rule, but rather the exception. Still, Christian, the question is: if it's not just by chance, as in the example just now, how do I decide whether a market is worth it for me, and how do I best assess the potential for my business?
Christian: Yes, to assess the potential, you should analyze the market size and the competition, as well as entry barriers and the price range that is locally possible there. What we always look at as well is which competitors are already there? Of course, besides market size, that's also crucial, and especially when we notice that many manufacturers are already competing with us directly from China and there is extreme price pressure, then those are also markets where we say, then we just don't enter. So the potential really has to be there. And price and price stability are of course another factor. But overall, it really comes down to: how big is the market? Is there demand there, and are people searching for my product? That's what matters most. And if so, with which keywords? That's the most important part of the analysis.
David: You just mentioned the whole topic of keywords and analysis. Are there certain tools I can use to analyze markets before deciding to internationalize?
Christian: Yes, absolutely. Terapeak, for example, is a great tool, and eBay has now acquired it. Here you can view sales figures and product trends. So it's a very important tool for analyzing potential. Baygraph can also be added. There I can see how often keywords and keyword phrases are used by other merchants and, so to speak, by other products in product listings. That's also very, very good insight. And then, of course, there are other marketplaces at national and international level where I can identify demand. How many reviews are there on the products? How much is being offered there? But classic tools like Google Trends can also be very helpful.
Tino: Speaking of tools, Isabell, what options do I have on our marketplace to make offers visible to international buyers?
Isabell: We offer two options for our merchants. The first is what I always call the beginner option, meaning I simply add shipping to my already existing listings. So, for example, I already have my listing on eBay.de, and then I would create a so-called shipping cost table in my eBay account. I can then choose which countries I want to ship to, how much shipping costs, how long the processing time is, and so on. And the listing then becomes visible on the sites I selected. For some countries, we even translate the title and adjust the price, but for example the item description is not translated and would remain in the original language. However, we also offer the option of active listing. That means I would actively go to, for example, eBay France and create my listing there. And the advantage is simply that I have much more flexibility. I can choose the keywords appropriately, I can translate the item description, and, as Christian just said, I can also adjust photos if desired. And yes, this active listing gives me much more of the opportunity to basically build my brand and influence customer emotions at that point. But still, the first option, where I simply add shipping, is often well suited to get a better understanding of the market and, so to speak, to ease into it slowly. Especially if I haven't had the time to complete intensive research yet.
Tino: And do we support our sellers with translations?
Isabell: Translations are definitely an important topic, and we launched the European sales accelerator for that. This is a program we offer in cooperation with Web Interpret, and it is free for all business merchants. If, for example, I don't have a Shop subscription, up to 250 listings will be translated with the help of this program. That means I would choose the simple option, I would only add shipping to my listings, and the program then takes 250 of these listings, translates them, and actively lists them on the sites I added for shipping. The item description is then translated as well. My title is translated, and I also have the option to adjust individual keywords again within this Web Interpret interface. If, for example, we're selling Rolling Stones, that shouldn't be translated, for example. We don't want to sell "rolling stones" records. Exactly, I can do all that in this tool as well. So, kind of a bit of fine-tuning.
Tino: Yes, very nice, Isabell, that you tailored that to me right away. Excellent. I'm a big Stones fan. Apart from that: let's stay with the topic for a moment, so not Rolling Stones now. Christian, how do I best communicate with buyers? Always in the language of the respective country, or in international trade in the official language English, I'd say?
Christian: Yes, the best communication is always in the local language. That of course applies to product descriptions, CRM, and all other touchpoints too, for example. Delivery notes or invoices, for instance, are of course much easier for the customer to understand when they are in the local language as well. And what's important here, as Isabell already said, is that the texts shouldn't just be translated, they also need to be adapted to the target audience, and then in the end you should check again whether the right keywords were used. So that's a very, very important part. Even if you have an agency do it, they sometimes don't include the right keywords. So feel free to check that yourself again. And you can, for example, check that with the tools as well. Which keywords are relevant in the respective countries? Which ones did my translation service use, for example? Are they all supported and anchored there? And if not, you should add them. I think it's also worth mentioning that customer behavior differs in some countries, of course. For example, when we expanded into Eastern Europe, we were already surprised that very, very many customers of course found us via marketplaces or even our own webshops, and then really called us and wanted to place orders by phone and naturally wanted someone on the line who speaks the local language. So for customer service, once the market gets big enough, you should already plan for people who can really communicate with customers by phone and who also speak the local language.
David: It's fascinating how differently that can play out. I’d like to touch on a topic you briefly mentioned earlier in the preparation, something people should deal with. Namely the quite complex topic of logistics. Where is the best place to get help with this topic, and where should you maybe also learn processes yourself? So what do you need to do yourself, and what can you perhaps just hand off?
Christian: Yes, I think it's important when going international that you at least do enough research to know which processes are required, which regulatory, logistical, and general processes are needed there in order to sell successfully and, I’d say, without legal trouble. And if I understand that well, then I can also brief and manage my service providers accordingly and of course negotiate properly with them. Of course, when it comes to prices and terms, that shouldn't be underestimated either. But I would always recommend, especially at the beginning, handing off processes, for example to third-party providers, because they've obviously done it much, much more often, know the topic much better, and of course often have the necessary infrastructure to support it. There are of course third-party providers such as VPX or Orange Connex, for example for logistics. They have local return centers on site. That makes it much easier for the customer to send a return locally, instead of having to ship it from Italy back to Germany. That's complicated and expensive for them too. So you should definitely rely on third-party providers there; it's much, much cheaper than building it yourself. And if you ever grow large enough and it scales, you can still think about what to bring back in-house. But my recommendation is always to outsource processes in a modular way, while still knowing them well enough to control and monitor them. And especially if you're new to the topic, my recommendation is always to exchange ideas with other eBay merchants who have already done it. There are also forums and Facebook groups. But really use the opportunity of the network and talk to people who have already done it, and try to learn from them. I'm also often in America. I'm always surprised by how much more openly people there share best practices compared to German merchants, meaning how it works, which merchants and partners they use, which marketing campaigns worked well. I think Germany can still learn a lot from that. And when we and the merchant community support each other like that, we all do better. So I can only encourage you: exchange ideas. That's often the best step and the fastest step to really learn what matters, what works, and what doesn't.
David: I thought two very important points were made just now. First, you should know the processes well enough to really assess whether you have the right partner. I think that's incredibly important. And I'm totally with you on the whole topic of exchange. I think recently there was eBay Open. That was an ideal opportunity for merchants to exchange ideas, so using merchant events to connect with others in a targeted way can also be very, very helpful. Isabell, a question for you about shipping. Christian just mentioned Orange Connex. The name sounds very familiar to me. What options does eBay offer our merchants there?
Isabell: Exactly. Christian just described the way you can build your own carrier management. I can only agree with that. As an eBay merchant, you can also easily benefit from discounts at Packlink, among other things. That can also be cheaper than trying to negotiate terms yourself. As was just mentioned. And we also have, as we often see, eBay Fulfillment by Orange Connex. For example, we have warehouses in the UK and Australia, and there you could also store the goods directly. So as a German merchant, I would basically have my goods directly on site in the destination country. But at eBay, we are of course also aware that this whole shipping topic is super complex and can really be a challenge. And I can already spoil that we are currently working on a project, and there will be more information about it next year.
Tino: But Isabell, shipping as a challenge is one thing. But how does that work with the beautiful topic of taxes?
Isabell: It really is a beautiful topic, and I think anyone who is self-employed in Germany knows that taxes can get very complex. And that doesn't get any easier in cross-border trade. For example, if I sell within Europe, I can register for the so-called OSS procedure, the One Stop Shop procedure. This is especially interesting if I generate sales of more than 10,000 euros across borders and across marketplaces. But since we as eBay are not allowed to provide tax advice, we have set up a cooperation with three different partners. These are Avalara, eClear, and Taxdoo. Together with them, we have put together three packages each. And yes, through a discount, eBay merchants can benefit from this and get professional advice and setup. Especially if I'm selling to countries like the US or UK, which are no longer within Europe, there are very different things to consider.
Tino: And Christian, that's certainly a topic where I should seek external help. Do you think there are any other areas where it would make sense to look for a partner?
Christian: Yes, I think I would definitely outsource all legal topics to experts and get help there too. So data protection, terms and conditions on local shop pages, including on eBay, and protecting myself against legal warnings, etc. I would definitely get external help for that. For example, you can also use Trusted Shops; there is also a partnership with eBay and Trusted Shops, where you can download these things and get legal advice there as well. So that's definitely very, very important, and in addition I think taxes, warehousing, meaning logistics, and also translations are the most important topics once those are taken care of.
Isabell: Regarding legal topics, we have already recorded two podcast episodes with our colleague Tilman Kuhla. I'd also like to recommend those to our listeners at this point.
David: Especially since the last one even took place with a colleague from Trusted Shops. So very fitting. Isabell, I'd now like to get a bit more specific about our marketplace. And the question is simply this: how much does it actually cost me as a merchant if I want to sell internationally through eBay?
Isabell: Well, as a business merchant, I already know about fees like listing fees and selling commissions that apply. But an international fee can also apply, depending on which country I sell to. If I sell as a German seller, for example, within the eurozone, there is no additional fee at first. So the international fee is free in that case. If I sell to the UK, for example, the international fee is 1.2%. But maybe we can link our help page about fees again in the show notes. There we've also put together a table where I can see what it would cost me additionally in each country.
David: Yes, of course, definitely.
Tino: Yes, and Isabell, is there then another way for me to get even more familiar with the topic? I'm asking because the whole topic is naturally relatively complex, and I'm wondering whether the same tools or reports are available in all international markets as currently on eBay.de.
Isabell: Yes, that was two questions. So first, regarding the first one, whether I can get even more familiar with the topic. We have been working on an eBay Academy course about international trade. I'd also warmly recommend that one at this point. It's now our second course on the CBT topic. One course is specifically just about translation, and the other is about the overall process, where we also explain the two listing options in more detail. And in about 15 minutes you get a kind of full overview to get more familiar with the topic. We also recently published the so-called CBT Handbook, basically the workbook for international trade. Many colleagues internally worked on it, and together with merchants we tried to address all questions around international trade on eBay. It explains all the details on topics like fees, eBay accounts, but also tools. And to answer the question now as well: it depends on which report I want to use. Generally, most tools are available on all eBay sites. But there are also exceptions. And if, for example, I regularly use reports from the Performance tab in Seller Cockpit Pro, meaning I look at my impressions and/or my sales in the reports, then it makes sense to download them separately for each eBay site and basically look at the performance separately. But if I use my Payments reports, for example, then everything is always included together. So I only need to go to eBay Germany and then I basically have everything in one report.
Tino: And we also recorded a podcast episode about eBay Academy together with Torben Schwanke. We’d of course be happy to link that here as well.
David: And of course the direct link to the Academy as well. I think we've learned a lot today about how important preparation always is before you even think about internationalizing. How important it is to know your own brand and also to know the market. And I think the most important thing once again: you need to know the processes. And you need the knowledge to assess whether you have the right partner by your side. That's always important too. And otherwise, I think a lot of it is simply having the courage to try it and engage with it. Thank you both very much at this point for these exciting insights and the many, many pieces of information on this topic. Now, of course, we come to the final question, which probably has already been expected by our regular listeners. Christian, we'll start with you! What was the last thing you bought on eBay?
Christian: I bought, together with my son, who successfully completed fourth grade, his first Nerf gun with money from his pocket money, and then he tried to bid on it on eBay, of course. The first purchase went wrong, we didn't win that one. But the second auction, he kept asking me regularly, every hour. And when he woke up in the morning, the first question was "Dad, are we still in the lead? Highest bidder?" and that worked out too. And by now he is the proud owner of his first Nerf gun and plays with his friends a lot, so that was a good buy.
Tino: Yes, I'm curious when you'll jump in too, because I always fondly remember wonderful Nerf gun battles with my sister's kids. So that's fun. Isabell, now we get to ask you the question too: what was the last thing you bought on eBay?
Isabell: Yes, my answer is a bit less exciting. We just wrapped up festival season, and I had bought all my camping gear for the festivals on eBay. So really everything from duct tape to a camping chair, and I even checked again which item was actually the very last one, and it was indeed a three-pack of mosquito spray, 100 milliliters each. It was important to me to have small packages too, and I actually couldn't find them anywhere else. Exactly. I'm going on safari again in the fall, and I wanted to take small bottles with me.
David: Very good. So I'm looking forward to the safari pictures. But of course also to whether the mosquito spray bottles were enough, depending on where you're going. Once again, many thanks to you both for your time. And now it's of course time for my closing words, as always at the end. We are very much looking forward to your feedback on our podcast. Feel free to write to us in the community about your own experiences, especially if you've already used some of the tools we offer or are thinking about internationalizing. If you have questions about the whole topic, you can also post them in the eBay Community. We'll try to answer them there too. Of course, we’d also be very happy if you’d leave us a subscription or a like wherever you're listening to us, if possible. Once again, many thanks to you both, Christian and Isabell, as guests this time for being here today and sharing your knowledge with us. And I say goodbye and see you next time.
Tino: Yes, many thanks to Isabell, Christian, and to you too, David, and we'll see each other again soon. See you soon.
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