Counterfeit coins and replicas - why isn't eBay responding?
Summary: mauz_kautschuk describes frustratingly that their reports about counterfeit coins and replicas on eBay are being ignored, even though these violate the platform guidelines. One auction ended at 770 euros, which shocks mauz_kautschuk. They are considering filing a fraud report, but are unsure about the evidence. stubenkram agrees that it’s hard to do anything about it, since eBay often doesn’t respond. They suggest doing educational outreach for other collectors. mauz_kautschuk had already sent clear evidence, such as the incorrect weight and images, to eBay.
No matter what evidence and images I provide to prove that a coin is obviously fake or that it’s a replica, and no matter that I report these listings, my reports are dismissed as unfounded. And when I appeal against that, the appeal is rejected. Yet offering replicas and counterfeit coins is clearly against eBay’s policies.
This is blatantly enabling fraud and ruining eBay’s reputation as a marketplace for coins. What’s going on here? Do the staff who handle the reports and complaints even have any idea what they’re doing? I’m just completely stunned that a replica of a Frankfurt Convention thaler from 1772 is currently being traded at bid prices of over €300. The seller (also a commercial dealer!) responds to my messages and the question for a photo of the coin’s edge, which would expose the scam beyond doubt, with nothing more than a perfunctory “Okay”. What the heck is going on here?
mauz_kautschuk
OP2 days agoSo, now the next replica of exactly the same Frankfurt Convention thaler from 1772 is up for auction, with the exact same text. Only the seller is someone else, or at least a different username suggests that.
This replica (same type, see numista-ID 155331) is in a different condition (apparently it was in a silver dip bath) and there’s a picture of the coin edge ... the price is already at €51,- ...
mauz_kautschuk
OP3 days agoI'm having an internal crisis right now - I'm watching someone getting ripped off, I call for help, and the operator of the table couldn't care less. No chance to contact the buyer in any way, nothing, my hands are simply tied ...
stubenkram
·3 days ago · EditedHello, @mauz_kautschuk
I had already read your post yesterday. You're fighting a losing battle on Ebay when it comes to this kind of fake. Assuming your reports even reach a thinking human and not an AI-controlled humanoid: there will be nobody there who understands antiques, and certainly not a numismatist. So you won't be understood by Ebay and will be brushed off for that reason alone.
Besides, you really have to be able to prove that a fake/reproduction was knowingly offered/sold with intent to defraud. That probably also applies to a report to the police. The seller didn't show a picture of the coin edge, as you write - so that proof of a reproduction is already missing. Do you yourself own such a convention thaler, so that you could lay the original and the fake next to each other for a proof photo?
That makes you wish for the days when you could still see on Ebay who was bidding on what, right? Then you could have warned the buyer. Whether he would have listened to you is another question.
I stopped reporting fakes on Ebay that affect my collecting areas a long time ago. Or writing to individual sellers about it. It's just a waste of time. Fraudulent intent is not always present either. Some sellers act out of ignorance. Others are out to find a sucker. And they keep finding one again and again.
Some accounts of sellers who repeatedly offered fakes were deleted a few years ago. But that was certainly not because of my reports, but because the cheated buyers fought back and also left corresponding feedback.
As an "uninvolved observer" you can really only do very little. Of course you can do educational work, for example create guides and use them to point out to other collectors what they need to pay attention to when buying in order to distinguish the fake from the original.
mauz_kautschuk
OP3 days agoI pointed out the wrong coin weight (24.5g vs. 28g) and I had sent along pictures that even an idiot would understand
Original edge
Replica; NGES as part of the word "aktieNGESellschaft"
Original with waves
Replica, no waves
stubenkram
·2 days ago · EditedHello @mauz_kautschuk
I am such an idiot, 😉 I know absolutely nothing about coins, but I can clearly see the differences here. Had you sent all your comparative information to Ebay, or just to the seller?
The seller seems to mainly deal in watches, jewelry, and silverware, so they may not be as well informed as you are. The lower weight of the coin sold was mentioned in the listing. There is no photo of the coin edge and no note that it is not a thaler from 1772, but a replica. Are all the other details in the listing correct and complete?
How old are replicas like these, what are they roughly worth, and who minted them? Are such coins made specifically for collectors, or are they older? Was the coin artificially aged in the listing?
As I said, I know nothing about ancient coins. But since the mintings of the thaler in the listing are very easy to make out, in my opinion the buyer is "to blame themself" if they pay too much for a replica because they do not recognize the differences. As a collector, you should inform yourself a bit, including about replicas.
That doesn’t change the fact, though, that this listing is a clear violation of the rules, because replicas of coins are not allowed on Ebay.
mauz_kautschuk
OP3 days agoShould I just report the guy for fraud?
voli-maus
·3 days agoDid you buy it, @mauz_kautschuk ?
mauz_kautschuk
OP3 days agoof course not, I probably should have, and then as the buyer I should have involved eBay. But €770 is just too high a stake
mauz_kautschuk
OP3 days agoSo, now this thing has been auctioned off for a whopping €770 .... I'm speechless!