Hermes + eBay: the never-ending story
Hey,
Buyer returns the item with Hermes.
Parcel ends up somewhere.
Complaint is ignored.
eBay refunds the buyer MY money.
Case closed.
Appeal denied.
No item, no WR, no money.
Thanks to eBay+
Now the seller has the hassle and time wasted.
24 comments
grohbacher
·3 weeks agoHello @p-schauberger
why there are cumbersome legal requirements, you have to ask the politicians.
Nowhere does it say that any kind of cancellation has to be explained personally, "face to face." In the vast majority of cases, this happens in writing, including through third parties.
That the "cancellation function" provided by EBAY is legally highly questionable in this form is beyond dispute.
You already have the buyer's "real name" and the other details, since the return is directly linked to the original transaction; at least it should be.
I just want to avoid the impression that the legal consequences of a cancellation on EBAY would only apply if the buyer writes only the word "cancellation" as the reason in the return. The other return reasons are also, as a rule, "cancellations" within the meaning of the BGB.
Regards
grohbacher
·3 weeks agoGood evening;
once again:
any statement of opinion of any kind by a buyer saying he no longer wants the purchase is a withdrawal within the meaning of the BGB. It makes no difference whether he writes:
- I withdraw (without giving a reason)
- I withdraw because I no longer want the item ... or ...
or
- I am sending the item back because I no longer
want the item ... or ... or.
In any case, it is clear that the buyer wants to unwind the purchase contract.
Why should a buyer who gives a reason for his return be treated worse in legal terms than a buyer who only writes “withdrawal”?
The same also applies when the buyer initiates a return via EBAY. There too there is a reason (doesn’t fit, don’t want it, etc. as well as withdrawal). EBAY only added the reason “withdrawal” in order to comply with the legal requirement for the so-called withdrawal button. That was only intended to make the word “withdrawal” appear among the return reasons as well. As a result, at EBAY all reasons for a return are withdrawals within the meaning of the BGB.
The request for return as well as its justification is automatically communicated to the seller. Since EBAY is the seller’s vicarious agent, he is aware of this withdrawal.
However, in the EBAY return process the buyer even has the disadvantage, contrary to the legal situation, that he must also prove delivery to the seller. Normally this is proven by the delivery note in the shipment tracking.
If the EBAY return is requested within the seller’s stated withdrawal period (at least 14 days), there is a legally effective withdrawal under the BGB. If, however, the EBAY return procedure is only started after that (but within the 30-day EBAY return period) and properly completed, the buyer does get his money back from EBAY at the seller’s expense. But the seller can then rely on the fact that there is no legally effective withdrawal and take civil action against the buyer.
Of course, a return without comment or a refusal to accept without comment cannot be regarded as an effective withdrawal. However, a withdrawal can subsequently be declared within the deadlines in some form or other, and an EBAY return can also be initiated.
All of this of course does not apply to “complaints” or to warranty and guarantee claims.
Regarding the opening post:
I can understand the frustration and annoyance of the OP. He not only lost the purchase price and shipping costs, but apparently the EBAY selling commission etc. were not reimbursed either.
But at EBAY it is not enough simply to dispute delivery and claim that the item was not delivered to him. He would have to prove the opposite, namely by means of a corresponding letter from the transport service provider or a legally binding court judgment. In private law he would not have any claims anyway, since the EBAY return process constitutes a legally effective withdrawal (if the withdrawal period was observed) and he therefore bears the return shipping risk. Unfortunately, unfortunately....
As always: my personal legal opinion.
As for implementing the “withdrawal button” requirement at EBAY, I would rather not comment.
Regards
Manfred
p-schauberger
OP3 weeks ago · EditedHey @grohbacher , IF that is all so EASY, why are there then CUMBERSOME legal requirements ?
p-schauberger
OP3 weeks ago · Editede.g.: §356a
(2) The withdrawal function must enable the consumer to transmit a withdrawal declaration to the entrepreneur and to easily provide or confirm the following information to the entrepreneur in or with the withdrawal declaration:
1.
the consumer's name, (REAL NAME, not member name)
2.
Information to identify the contract or the part of the contract that the consumer wants to withdraw from,
grohbacher
·Sep 14, 2026 at 3:26 PMGood day,
@bixtron Did you see the shipping label? Surely not, and surely not TE @p-schauberger either. All things considered, one can only assume that the buyer was an eBay Plus member and received a Hermes shipping label from EBAY. The buyer may also have purchased their own shipping label directly from HERMES. But assumptions are not facts.
Contractual partner (I want to avoid the word principal) of HERMES is the buyer of the ticket; so either EBAY or the item buyer. Only these parties can assert claims against HERMES arising from the transport order. Legally speaking, the ticket buyer would also have to do this for the benefit of the recipient; at least by assigning the claims to the recipient. In practice, however, this often fails.
On HERMES delivery:
I have since done some digging with HERMES. In tracking, in the end only "delivery location: recipient address" actually appears; possibly with a corresponding note for neighbor delivery or drop-off at a shop.
Under the HERMES terms and conditions, the recipient's signature is required. But at least 90% of Hermes couriers do not stick to this (not here either).
You are free, @p-schauberger , to file a criminal complaint against unknown persons for forgery (the acknowledgment of receipt is a [private] document), theft, embezzlement, or similar offenses.
On revocation:
As @sunrise1605 also confirmed, no specific wording is required for an effective revocation.
Since the reorganization of the right of revocation this year, revocation can also be effectively declared to EBAY by opening the return process - see
https://community.ebay.de/forum/ebay-news-44/topic/neue-widerrufsfunktion-bei-ebay-ab-dem-19-juni-2026-9521/
There were heated discussions about this back then here, for example
https://community.ebay.de/forum/vorschl%C3%A4ge-und-r%C3%BCckmeldungen-zur-ebay-plattform-18/topic/implementierung-des-widerrufsbuttons-auf-ihrer-plattform-ab-dem-19062026-7790/?utm_source=bevy_ckai&utm_medium=discussion_recommendation
By chance I also saw that you, @p-schauberger , were also involved in this discussion and were informed accordingly.
All things considered, the buyer is likely to have effectively declared the revocation.
Once again: This is my private legal opinion.
Regards
Manfred
bixtron
·Sep 14, 2026 at 4:21 PMHello,
sure, we don’t know that right now. The question is why eBay is refunding. A return must have been opened here, or the buyer used the phone-a-friend lifeline.
Return with Hermes - I’m pretty sure this is eBay+...
Nevertheless, eBay has no business interfering there and has once again violated applicable laws. Not directly, but eBay has harmed the seller and deprived them of their rights, or is making it difficult for them.
The buyer has zero claim. A return request on eBay is purely a service feature and is not the same as a cancellation, nor does it have to be treated as one. The cancellation button will still be missing on eBay next year, and the process also still doesn’t seem to work - the seller receives no cancellation and the buyer no confirmation. Seriously, they simply added a return reason called "right of withdrawal" :-)
And eBay still doesn’t get that, according to almost all withdrawal policies, the buyer has 14 days to send the item back and not 21. Here I will also always insist without exception that eBay takes over the refund in full if the buyer exceeds the 14-day deadline.
sunrise1605
·Sep 14, 2026 at 6:56 PMCancellation via eBay can only be effective if the buyer actually uses the "button" or whatever eBay has cobbled together.
If that is not the case and no (informal) cancellation is sent directly to the seller either, then there isn't one.
That's just my personal opinion.
The OP wrote that no cancellation took place.
grohbacher
·1 month agoHello,
As I understand it, a commercial seller also bears the shipping risk when an item is returned. But the buyer not only has to prove that they sent the package back, they also have to be able to show that it was sent to the correct return address. But that’s just my opinion.
@p-schauberger What does HERMES tracking say about this?
Regards,
Manfred
p-schauberger
OP1 month agoHi,
delivered as always ...
Probably with a forged signature.
Best, Peter
bixtron
·1 month ago · EditedHello,
the commercial seller is liable for the return shipping, that is correct.
Requirements:
Valid withdrawal
Exact and correct specification of the address that the seller named as the return address
The shipment was packed with sufficient protection in accordance with the shipping provider's requirements
The shipment was sent by the sender to the delivery address specified by the seller
The shipment was sufficiently insured by the sender and has valid proof of delivery or proof of the shipment being accepted for mailing
Oh, and of course all of that within the agreed deadlines.
But since eBay has interfered again here and is also the one who commissioned the shipping, in my opinion eBay is responsible and has to compensate for the damage. What happens with the goods is of course irrelevant.
But Peter is acting correctly by sticking to the fact that there is no withdrawal.
grohbacher
·Sep 13, 2026 at 5:23 PMhello @bixtron
You write that EBAY had commissioned the shipping and must compensate for the damage.
Unfortunately, that is not correct. The buyer was the one who commissioned the return shipment; he merely used a shipping ticket that EBAY had apparently made available to him. There is no indication that this shipping ticket was faulty. Neither the buyer nor EBAY is liable for any misconduct by HERMES. If the shipping ticket came from EBAY, then of course EBAY would have to assert the rights under the transport contract and, if necessary, assign them to the seller.
@p-schauberger where do you get the knowledge that the buyer is an EBAY Plus member? Normally you don’t find that out from EBAY.
What does the HERMES tracking say about which person it was delivered to, or at which location it was delivered.
If you have a safe-place agreement and it was delivered to that safe place, then as you know you can write off any possible claims against HERMES.
And why "forged signature"?
For years, parcel recipients have no longer been required to sign anything. There can be no signature forgery.
Most likely, the return was handled properly in accordance with the EBAY terms and conditions and EBAY policies. These rules, which you also agreed to, do not provide for a formal revocation.
However, since the EBAY terms and conditions explicitly state that the private-law relationship between seller and buyer remains unaffected by EBAY’s decisions, you are free to assert your rights under the purchase contract against the buyer under private law. However, the buyer does not have to write "revocation" verbatim. Any statement from which it can be inferred that the buyer wants to return the item is sufficient.
I would like to emphasize expressly that all of this is my personal legal opinion. Please obtain proper legal advice from the authorized bodies.
Regards
Manfred
p-schauberger
OPSep 14, 2026 at 8:39 AMHi @grohbacher ,
that’s quite a lot of questions.
So - quickly, since I’m taking care of my business customers - Hermes hasn’t said anything at all yet about delivery. If I didn’t sign for it - which has been a thing again for some time now - who else would ?
For eBay Plus members there are certain signs; the most obvious is when someone, in the feedback, ALWAYS has "RETURN PROCESSING" standing there,
These members make FULL use of that ...
On the WR topic, you’re misinformed.
@bixtron
You wrote the right thing
Best, Peter
bixtron
·Sep 14, 2026 at 1:35 PM · EditedHi,
if the buyer had been the client, he wouldn’t have been able to receive an eBay+ Hermes return label, because only eBay gets that from Hermes and no one else.
The sender, recipient, and whatnot are completely irrelevant - what matters is who commissioned/paid for/ordered the service, and that is definitely eBay. The same applies to the DHL labels, which especially the phone lifelines happily hand out at random.
There are certainly still old threads here in which losses/damage to shipments sent with eBay’s label are discussed. When an investigation request is submitted, both the recipient and the sender receive the rejection: “eBay has to get in touch, since they are the client”.
perfect-sally
·1 month agoAnd what would you like to know from the community?
You're a commercial seller, after all, so you bear the shipping risk.
Of course eBay will refund if the seller doesn't refund voluntarily.
stubenkram
·1 month agoUh....why is the seller bearing the shipping risk here?
The buyer did send something back, but it didn’t arrive, right?
perfect-sally
·1 month agoCommercial seller is right there. And that’s something different from private sellers.
stubenkram
·1 month ago · EditedI didn't know that a commercial seller is therefore also responsible for making sure that a returned item has tracking. So with a private seller that wouldn't be the case, @perfect-sally ?
perfect-sally
·1 month agoI didn't write anything about tracking a shipment.
A commercial seller always bears the shipping risk, whether outbound or return shipping. However, the return sender would have to prove that it was sent back. In that case, a posting receipt might also be sufficient. But since the buyer has demonstrably shipped it here, the explanation is unnecessary.
If a buyer sends something back to a private individual, generally the return sender bears the risk. To what extent eBay then decides if nothing arrives can never be predicted, because sometimes it is decided one way and sometimes the other.
stubenkram
·1 month agoOkay. Thanks for the info.
p-schauberger
OP1 month agoProblem!
There was no revocation!!!
So the case is different ...
perfect-sally
·1 month ago · EditedYes, without a cancellation the sender is actually liable.
Please provide the item number and the present staff member can take a look at it. However, I do wonder how eBay was able to issue a refund at all if apparently no return was opened. There is now the so-called cancellation button, which is not a button on eBay but is still supposed to have this function.
Hello @verena@ebay would you be so kind? Thanks
kometenhuhn
·1 month ago · EditedBut how does the situation come about then that Ebay is involved?
A return opened through it is basically the same as a cancellation, right, or am I mistaken?
Regardless of this, there is also liability with Hermes - even if that can take a long time. What is being shown to you in the tracking? Can your postal code be identified there as the delivery address?
Did you provide the shipping label, or did the buyer themselves affix / pay for postage?