FSK 18 article, bypassing mandatory DHL age verification for 18+ | Suggestions and Feedback on the eBay Platform | eBay Germany

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FSK 18 article, bypassing mandatory DHL age verification for 18+

Summary: amanotc raises a concern about eBay's handling of FSK-18 items, which are required by law to be shipped with DHL age verification. They are frustrated because despite complying, their sales are affected by competitors who list similar items with cheaper or free shipping options that do not comply with this requirement. This practice possibly violates youth protection laws, yet eBay’s system does not automatically enforce the shipping rule. amanotc suggests an automatic system adjustment to ensure compliance and expresses frustration at the difficulty of reporting numerous violations. Another participant acknowledges the issue and promises to forward the complaint to the relevant department for potential system improvements.

@steffi@ebay @samantha@ebay @miriam@ebay @alena@ebay

Question for eBay:

For FSK 18 items, it is mandatory to ship them as a parcel with DHL age verification from 18 years old. Fair enough, that’s clearly specified.
Current price: 6.19 for the smallest parcel plus 1.99 for DHL = €8.18.

What really annoys me: I stick to this and set up all my FSK 18 items that way. But I don’t sell any of them, because I see thousands of other competing listings offering the same FSK 18 items either with standard letter shipping or even with free shipping.

How can your system not notice this? This would be super easy to implement as an automatic check when creating a listing:
If FSK 18 is selected for an item, then if DHL parcel shipping with age verification is not selected, automatically change the shipping method to DHL parcel with age verification.
Boom, done, problem solved.

Instead, thousands of listings here are violating the Youth Protection Act and offering shipping of FSK 18 items to minors. It is completely impossible for me to report all of these items.

And when I do report such items, about 90% of them are not removed because they supposedly do not violate any eBay policies.

When are you going to change something here? What am I supposed to do? I can’t report several thousand items. If that’s what you expect, I’d need an employment contract from eBay for that, but I doubt you want to pay my hourly wage 😉

amanotc

220 View listings

Posted 1 year ago·Last reply 2 months ago

31 comments

bremen04

·2 months ago

Ebay wrote on 04-12-2015 07:16:

Dear eBay sellers,

from now on, in addition to commercial sellers private sellers can now also offer on the eBay marketplace films marked "FSK 18+" and computer games marked "USK 18+".

However, for reasons of youth protection, private sellers may only offer such films and computer games exclusively with the new DHL Paket shipping service with "age verification 18 years and over" . With this shipping service, international shipping is not possible and therefore cannot be offered either. In addition, the corresponding designation in the item specifics under "FSK rating" or "USK rating" must be selected in the listing.

Important: You can currently purchase the shipping label only via DHL Online Franking . As soon as other logistics providers offer a corresponding service for private customers, we will allow that as well.

Nothing changes for commercial sellers. As before, they must ensure in an appropriate way that when shipping, the parcel containing the "FSK 18+" or "USK 18+" items is not handed over to children or young people.

Blacklisted or confiscated films or games may still not be offered on eBay.

The changes described above are effective immediately and form part of the eBay policy on media harmful to minors.

Kind regards
Your eBay team

(Enforcement???? None !!!! I could name dozens or even hundreds of sellers, but I don't have the time for that, or eBay doesn't respond, unfortunately.)

silke7474

·6 months ago

Hello Steffi
I’m also a private seller, I have the same problem
It’s so damn frustrating that they get away with it and send their 18+ stuff for 1.80 euros and no one bids on my 18+ items because I charge 8.20 shipping with age verification.
eBay will never change anything about that
The post office would need to bring back the letter with age verification for 3.70 euros
I’m completely on your side
Silke7474

kreisgutshop

·6 months ago

Yes, I have the same problem too. Although I still have it in the back of my mind that FSK 18 items can only, or should only, be displayed after AVS. But I'm not entirely sure about that either.

But the fact is that, because of the shipping costs, I simply can't compete with those who don't follow the rules, and unfortunately can't sell such items.

voli-maus

·6 months ago

Would you maybe like to start your own thread, @kreisgutshop ?

kreisgutshop

·6 months ago

Why should I?

voli-maus

·6 months ago

Because it gets lost here, @kreisgutshop

loeppchensrummelbude

·6 months ago

Even the big ones here on eBay now ship 18 items as letters and goods shipments🫤.....

kreisgutshop

·6 months ago

Those big ones can then also afford the warning letter or a lawyer. For me as a mini business owner, it would be business-threatening. I also see the responsibility behind proper shipping.

loeppchensrummelbude

·6 months ago

Of course you're right, it's not any different for me either. I just wanted to mention it......

bremen04

·2 months ago

Ah, and because of that, even now the Youth Protection Act is being violated when it comes to shipping? eBay, please take a look, this right here is exactly the problem now...

steffi@ebay

eBay Team

Admin1 year ago

Community TeamView listings

@amanotc wrote:

@steffi@ebay @samantha@ebay @miriam@ebay @alena@ebay

Question for eBay:

For FSK-18 items, it is mandatory to ship them as a parcel with DHL age verification from 18 years. So far, so clear and specified.
Current price: 6.19 for the smallest parcel plus 1.99 for DHL = €8.18.

What really annoys me: I stick to this and set all my FSK-18 items that way. But I don't sell anything, because I see thousands of other competing offers that either offer the same FSK-18 items with standard letter shipping or even with free shipping.

How can your system not notice this? This would be super easy to implement as an automatic check when creating an offer:
If FSK 18 is selected for an item, then if DHL parcel with age verification is not selected for shipping, automatically change the shipping method to DHL parcel with age verification.
Bang, done, problem solved.

Instead, thousands of items here are violating the Youth Protection Act and offering shipping of FSK-18 items to minors. It is completely impossible for me to report all these items.

Or rather, when I report such items, about 90% of them are not removed because they supposedly do not violate any eBay policies.

When will you change something here? What am I supposed to do? I can't report several thousand items. If that's what you expect, I need an employment contract from eBay for that, but I doubt you want to pay my hourly wage 😉

Hello @amanotc, first of all: eBay is a great employer! 😍

I’m moving the topic to Suggestions and Feedback, because I think that’s where it belongs.

I’m also sorry that you’re having difficulties selling your FSK-18 items and that you’re frustrated by other sellers not complying with the shipping guidelines. According to the legal requirements, FSK-18 items must be shipped in a way that ensures age verification. If sellers do not comply with this, such offers may violate the Youth Protection Act.

Unfortunately, there is currently no automated check when creating an offer that automatically changes the shipping method to DHL parcel with age verification when FSK-18 is selected for an item. I can only recommend continuing to report such violations, and also sending me the item numbers here for which you receive feedback that no policy violation was found, so that I can follow this up.

It is understandable that this is frustrating, and I will pass your feedback regarding an automated check on to the relevant department. This may enable future improvements in system monitoring. Thank you for your commitment to making the platform safer and compliant with the law.🌷

sunrise1605

·1 year ago

I have to agree with you here @amanotc

Ebay is massively neglecting its duty of care here.

And yes, if they define themselves as an 18+ platform, with соответствing offers, then they have to monitor that too.

If you try to list a dildo here, it gets deleted immediately because it’s suuuper naughty.

But FSK 18 items sent by mail are fine, then it’s suddenly none of Ebay’s business.

hasjana

·1 year ago

the DHL parcel/18 years age verification is simply an eBay compromise so that private sellers can offer these items here ... for private individuals, delivery against signature and only to the recipient simply isn't available, that's reserved for business customers with the соответствing contract with DHL

sunrise1605

·1 year ago

@hasjana wrote:
the DHL package / age verification for 18 is simply a compromise by eBay so that private sellers can offer these items here ... against signature and only to the recipient does not exist for private individuals, it is reserved for business customers with a corresponding contract with DHL

That is not true.

As a private customer, I can choose age verification for 16 and 18 years (surcharge €1.99).

Age verification

The delivery person / branch employee checks the age of the recipient using an official photo ID document. This can be waived if the delivery person / branch employee can clearly recognize that the recipient has reached the minimum age. No age is documented.

Authorized recipients are

the specified recipient
an authorized recipient
relatives of the recipient and persons present in the recipient's premises.

No delivery is made to neighbors or house residents. Please also note that a shipment with the age verification service cannot be delivered to a Packstation, a parcel shop, or a parcel box.

DHL accepts no liability for ensuring that the legal requirements for delivery of shipments (e.g. the Youth Protection Act) are met with the age verification service.

This service is only available online.

hasjana

·1 year ago

@sunrise1605

I didn't deny that - but

there is no option for private customers for signature required and only to the recipient (personal handover), that is reserved for business customers with the corresponding contract with DHL

primanovo

·1 year ago

"DHL assumes no liability for ensuring that the legal requirements regarding the delivery of shipments (e.g. the Youth Protection Act) are met with the age verification service."

Ebay requires age verification.

So FSK-18 items should also be listed that way.

EBAY should of course also be able to check that.

However, if Ebay or anyone else thinks this will prevent such items from falling into the hands of minors, they are greatly mistaken.

If a 14-year-old, for example, wants an FSK-18 game like that, he can get it without any problems these days.

*sweet-melody*

·1 year ago

Hallo !

Übersicht mit KI.

KI-Antworten können Fehler enthalten. Zur Beratung in rechtlichen Fragen solltest du dich an einen Experten wenden.

Wenn Artikel, die für Personen unter 18 Jahren nicht zugelassen sind (wie FSK 18 oder USK 18), einfach so verkauft werden, verstößt das gegen das Jugendschutzgesetz. Um diesem Verstoß entgegenzuwirken, können Sie verschiedene Schritte unternehmen:

1. Meldung des Verstoßes:

An den Händler:
Kontaktieren Sie den Händler direkt und machen Sie ihn auf den Verstoß aufmerksam. Bitten Sie ihn, den Verkauf dieser Artikel zu unterlassen und die Altersfreigaben zu beachten.

An die Plattform:
Wenn der Händler eine Online-Plattform (z.B. eBay, [nicht auf eBay]) verwendet, melden Sie den Verstoß an die Plattform. Die Plattformen haben in der Regel Richtlinien, die den Verkauf von jugendgefährdenden Artikeln regeln.

An die Jugendstabsstelle:
Sie können auch Ihre lokale Jugendstabsstelle kontaktieren. Sie können Ihnen weiterhelfen und ggf. den Verstoß weiter an zuständige Behörden melden.

2. Dokumentation:
Sammeln Sie Beweise für den Verstoß. Das können Screenshots der Artikelanzeigen, Bestellbestätigungen oder andere Dokumente sein, die den Verkauf belegen.

3. Rechtliche Schritte:
Verbraucherschutz:
Wenn der Verstoß gegen Verbraucherrechte verstößt (z.B. irreführende Werbung), können Sie sich an die Verbraucherzentrale oder eine Rechtsanwaltskanzlei wenden.
Strafanzeige:
In besonders schwerwiegenden Fällen (z.B. wenn der Händler wiederholt gegen das Jugendschutzgesetz verstößt) kann eine Strafanzeige bei der Polizei oder Staatsanwaltschaft in Betracht gezogen werden.

4. Unterstützung durch Verbände:
Jugendschutzverbände: Sie können auch lokale oder überregionale Jugendschutzverbände kontaktieren. Diese können Ihnen Beratung und Unterstützung bieten.

Wichtige Hinweise:
Altersprüfung:
Händler sind dazu verpflichtet, sicherzustellen, dass Artikel, die für Personen unter 18 Jahren nicht zugelassen sind, nur an volljährige Personen verkauft werden. Dazu gehören Maßnahmen wie die Altersprüfung durch Postident oder andere geeignete Verfahren.

Eigentumsrechte:
Sie können sich auch an die zuständigen Stellen wenden, wenn der Händler gegen Ihre eigenen Rechte verstößt (z.B. wenn er Ihre Urheberrechte verletzt).

bootyooty

·1 year ago

Hey, I’ll just reply unsolicited to this passage:

and offer shipping of FSK-18 items to minors.

No.... ebay assumes that all users who create an ebay account here are of legal age.

In very rare cases - in individual cases, to be precise - a minor may also register an ebay account. In general, though, ebay is for 18+ and therefore there is also no shipping of FSK 18 items to minors. 😉

loeppchensrummelbude

·1 year ago

Still, that's a huge **ouch** and a total distortion of competition....

bootyooty

·1 year ago

I did not claim anything like that.

amanotc

OP1 year ago

Thanks for your reply, but: Very thin ice. And not legally tenable in Germany.

A)

A platform in Germany cannot define itself as an adults-only platform just by text. If that is the intention, this must be ensured. This would be possible, for example, if every user account had to prove their age upon creation before activation via, for example, a Post-Ident process. I am active on sales platforms where, without a successful Post-Ident process, you cannot get access to the FSK-18 area, neither as a seller nor as a buyer.

B)

The Youth Protection Act (JuSchG) clearly states that for items that are only for adults, when sold it must be ensured that these items do not end up with minors upon delivery. This works via DHL age verification through ID checking. The parcel may then also not be handed over to anyone other than the person on the ID, not even to another adult person in the household such as a spouse or grandparents.
That is exactly why eBay insists on this method.

Ergo:
No effective control that users are 18+ and, with another shipping method, no effective control that the receiving person is 18+, thus enabling the shipment of FSK-18 items to minors and therefore probably even criminally relevant liability on the part of eBay.
eBay's argumentation and a reference to TOS that are not valid here in Germany would most likely not hold up in court. Probably just nobody has sued yet.

oskar_der_wikinger

·1 year ago

@amanotc I’ll also answer you briefly and to the point: who’s asking you to charge the buyer €8.18 for shipping with age verification?

Exactly, nobody.

Here’s an example from your collection liquidation

https://www.ebay.de/itm/187181846259

Instead of €3, you raise it to €11 and offer free shipping.

Lots of interested people go for that when something is free.

eBay only tells you to offer shipping with age verification for FSK 18 items,

but nobody dictates how you offset the cost.

Sorry, but you can stand in your own way so often without even noticing it.

amanotc

OP1 year ago

"Instead of €3,- you go up to €11,-, and offer free shipping."

Wrong. eBay deletes offers like that for me because they violate the terms of use and I don't offer parcel shipping with DHL age verification. Been there, done that.

hasjana

·1 year ago

@amanotc wrote:
"Instead of €3,- you go up to €11,-, offering free shipping."

Wrong. eBay deletes such listings for me because they violate the terms of use, and I do not offer parcel shipping with DHL age verification. Been there, done that.

◇◇◆◇◇◆◇◇◆◇◇

what's stopping you from specifying free shipping in connection with the DHL parcel/18 years old?

of course you are allowed to specify free shipping

amanotc

OP1 year ago

"what’s stopping you from specifying free shipping in connection with the DHL parcel/18 years old? "

I’m repeating myself: eBay deletes these listings for me. That has happened to me several times already. No FSK-18 title that I tested by listing it differently than with "DHL parcel with age verification from 18 years" was permanently published; instead, all of them were deleted after at most 24 hours.
Why does it work for other users? Don’t ask me. Probably even eBay doesn’t know.

hasjana

·1 year ago

@amanotc wrote:
"what stops you from specifying free shipping in connection with the DHL parcel/ 18 years? "

I’ll repeat myself: eBay deletes these listings for me. That has happened to me several times already. Not a single FSK-18 title that I tested by listing it differently than with "DHL parcel with age verification from 18 years" was permanently published; all of them were deleted after at most 24 hours.
Why does it work for other users? Don’t ask me. Probably even eBay doesn’t know.

◇◇◆◇◇◆◇◇◆◇◇

normally you get a reason for the deletion - free shipping is usually not among them

An exception would maybe be a mismatch between the item price and the pure shipping costs - something like 5 euros for the DVD in the classifieds section, if the shipping alone is 8.18 euros ... although quite a few have no doubt regretted it when they at least listed their auction cheaply with free shipping and then had to pay extra themselves, but especially with FSK/USK 18 items, people naturally like to deliberately ship it wrong sometimes

hasjana

·1 year ago

@amanotc wrote:

B)
The Youth Protection Act (JuSchG) clearly states that for items that are only for adults, it must be ensured when sold that these items are not handed over to minors upon delivery. This is done via DHL age verification by checking an ID. The package may also not be handed over to any other person than the one on the ID, actually not even to another adult person in the household such as a spouse or grandparents.
That is exactly why eBay insists on this method.

◇◇◆◇◇◆◇◇◆◇◇◆◇◇

the DHL package/18 years can be handed over to anyone whom the delivery person can assume is of legal age and belongs to the recipient - they don't even have to check the ID for that

The delivery person / branch employee checks the age of the recipient based on an official photo ID. This can be waived if the delivery person / branch employee can clearly see that the recipient has reached the minimum age. No age documentation is recorded.

Authorized to receive are

the named recipient

an authorized recipient

Relatives of the recipient and persons present in the recipient's premises.

No delivery is made to neighbors and housemates. Please also note that a shipment with the age visual check service cannot be delivered to a Packstation, a parcel shop or a parcel locker.

DHL assumes no liability that the legal requirements for the delivery of shipments (e.g. the Youth Protection Act) are met with the age visual check service.

amanotc

OP1 year ago

"the DHL parcel/18 years can be handed over to anyone whom the courier can assume is of legal age and belongs to the recipient - he doesn't even have to check the ID for that "

No DHL delivery person here does that. My wife was several times not handed parcels with age verification from 18 years for me, despite ID, because I couldn't personally sign and confirm acceptance. And yes, she is over 18 😉

In the whole discussion, be careful that there are different age verifications by DHL:
- age check 16+
- age check 18+
- age verification 18+ with ID and signature

voli-maus

·1 year ago

Yes @amanotc ,

for a medication delivery, for example, it often says on the box: handover only to the addressee.

Since I’ve long since been the man’s ex-fiancée and we share the same last name, the courier also hands the package over to me.

From time to time we have “regular delivery drivers” here, who know us.

amanotc

OP1 year ago

"From time to time, we have "regular delivery drivers" here who know us. "

By now, we also have a regular delivery driver who deviates from that. But this courtesy doesn't change the rules, and if the regular delivery driver deviates from them at their own risk, that still doesn't mean the rules have been changed 😉

katzenjogi

·1 year ago

Hello @bootyooty

shipping with age verification is not just supposed to prevent minors from buying things that don’t match their age rating, but also to make sure that items like that, which are only for adults, aren’t accidentally accepted on delivery by children.

If eBay anyway assumes that every eBayer registered here has already turned eighteen, and that this also applies to every guest buyer, then you could basically do without age-verification shipping from the start.

But the main point is to prevent a minor from getting their hands on these things at the end of the delivery chain. And I’m explicitly talking about a minor, not a female minor, because from my own experience the boys are for some reason much more interested in such things than the girls. Whether USK or FSK 18. Whether because of violence or the word with three letters....

@amanotc I’ve also given up reporting violations, though, because 99% of the time the report is rejected on the grounds that it is not a policy violation. Whether it’s alcohol with pickup only or legit p*rn without the proper shipping. And even though I’m not exactly proud of it, I’m pretty familiar with the latter.... and so I only report films that actually either have no youth rating or are even indexed. Pretty unsuccessful, I should add. And no, I don’t see the point in appealing every single time. That should be the exception, not the rule. And my time is too precious for that...

Many people aren’t aware that this is a criminal offense that can carry heavy prison sentences. Whether that is still justified in today’s age of the internet is debatable and would be a topic for another discussion. When I was a minor, there was no internet yet. Back then you actually had to go to the local cinema to get the appropriate education.