Automatically leave negative feedback for fun bidders and non-payers after 4 days
Summary: The discussion addresses challenges in eBay's rating system, particularly with regard to fairness and the impact of negative ratings on sellers. mmstore74 expresses concerns about buyers' subjective ratings, which do not always seem fair from sellers' perspective. A demand was made that sellers should be given the opportunity to be contacted before a negative rating is left in order to resolve conflicts. petersmodellbahnstuebchen comments that such situations are inevitable in online commerce and suggests local pickup as a possible solution, but also questions its practicality. The discussion ends with further reflections on possible improvements in dealing with fake bidders and non-payers, proposing automatic negative ratings after 4 days.
Hello everyone,
since I made a few auctions after years and am incredibly disappointed with what's going on here, I have a suggestion to put an end to this madness.
My suggestion would be as follows:
1. That fun bidders and non-payers will automatically receive negative feedback from eBay after 4 days with the remark "Item was not paid for" and please don't come at me with the "put them in the pillory" argument.
It can always happen that something unexpected comes up, or you can't afford it at the moment, but what you can at least do is briefly message the seller, since there is a right of withdrawal anyway, but not responding at all and not even answering messages is rock bottom, and we are sanctioned for everything.
2. Simply deduct 30% of the purchase price / bid for non-payers.
What do you guys think?
katzenjogi
·11 months agoHello @mmstore74
Your posts read almost as if you see your buyers as enemies who need to be defeated, and even if half of them are causing you problems, the other half hardly deserves to be thrown into the same sack that you want to beat.
You should finally realize that trying to educate buyers here on eBay in any way must fail.
And it’s pretty brazen of eBay to now pin the unreliability of your buyers on you. I already know why I haven’t sold anything here for years; however, I don’t depend on it either. That probably leaves only listing all offers as fixed-price items with the immediate payment option. I wouldn’t want to put my peace of mind at risk for the handful of customers who might be hoping for a bargain.
mmstore74
OP11 months ago@katzenjogi I won’t do that anymore either, and I won’t be listing any more auctions, and it only happened in the approx. 20 auctions now. I don’t experience that with Buy It Now.
No offense @katzenjogi 😎
*sweet-melody*
·10 months agoHello @mmstore74 !
So, if I were *YOU*, I wouldn't offer any more auctions.
Or, I would consistently
report a *unpaid item*
and consistently put it on the blocked list too.
I think if you keep at it like that, the jokers
will become fewer, and I do believe that eBay's measures in the
background, which we don't know about, are also effective.
You just need a longer breath for that; if you have it, give it a try!
If you do nothing at all now, then the jokers will have free rein.
We may not get rid of them completely, but we also have
ways to put obstacles in their path.
Whatever you do, good luck!
Best regards!
mmstore74
OP11 months agoHello @katzenjogi and now don't tell me that sellers shouldn't make things any more complicated for buyers.
Please remember that on eBay it is not allowed to place bids on your own item through another eBay account in order to increase the item's price or pretend it is more popular than it really is. This also includes bids from family members, friends, roommates, colleagues, or online acquaintances.
Here is what you should know:
I've been complaining here for weeks that people are bidding on my items, either not paying for them or canceling the purchase right after the auction ends, and now I'm being accused of bidding on my own items — that's a joke.
mmstore74
OP11 months agoHello @voli-maus I’ll answer you briefly too and then leave it at that, because it doesn’t help.
I’d have to look it up exactly now, but in the last 2 months I had about 20 items listed for bidding; of those 20, more than half weren’t paid for or the purchase was canceled immediately after the auction ended, what am I supposed to make of that? That stuff is annoying, either I want the item and can also afford / treat myself to it or I don’t, and I know that beforehand or am I wrong?
Have a nice evening everyone
voli-maus
·11 months agoYeah, seems to be standard, @mmstore74
People order something online, it gets delivered to the branch.
Doesn't cost any shipping charges.
The staff on site have quite a bit of work with it.
The parcels aren't picked up.
Again, quite a bit of work for the staff.
The parcels are picked up and returned the next day.
Again, just a tiny bit of work for the staff.
mmstore74
OP11 months agoHello @katzenjogi ,with all due respect, but I haven't read your novels all the way through, and since it was only a " suggestion " and you're not active here anyway, it doesn't concern you anyway. But I'll keep it short for you, what the difference is for me.
1. A cancellation is, for " me ", a polite way of doing things, and stuff like that just happens.
2. A non-payer who doesn't react to anything is, for me, an "ignorant" person who doesn't care.
He should just cancel it, then I can put the item back up for sale immediately; otherwise I have to wait at least 4 days, which would mean that with 490 items from our example, I couldn't make any money from the 490 items during that time
You can also compare it to going somewhere, saying hello politely, and getting nothing back; that would make me want to puke🤢
So it ended up being a bit longer after all
voli-maus
·11 months agoHello @mmstore74 ,
I myself read the "novel" by @katzenjogi in full.
I rarely or never read texts that long.
If the non-payer had made a guest purchase, how would you have held him liable?
If the non-payer came from a very distant or not so distant foreign country, how would you have held him liable?
If eBay were to adopt your proposal regarding the ten percent penalty fee, it would in any case probably only affect commercial sellers, who would likely have to pay even more fees.
katzenjogi
·11 months agoHello @mmstore74
to be successful as a commercial seller (and stay that way), you have to be able to rise above things like that. Sorry if I put it so briefly and bluntly now.
My post 53 was actually not supposed to be published at all, but rather replaced by 54, apparently that didn't work....
katzenjogi
·11 months agoHello @mmstore74
as a commercial seller, you do have to grant a 14-day cancellation period. Now just imagine if all 490 non-payers were to cancel properly.
Just imagine that for a moment!
What exactly would actually change for you in the end? I think, now quite personally and without wanting to accuse you of anything, that someone who orders from you five times and cancels at least four of those times will probably end up on the blocked list just like someone who orders five times and doesn’t pay at least four times without informing you of their cancellation wishes.
You’re probably mainly listing items here in order to sell them successfully - right? And in the end, does it make absolutely no difference whether someone cancels in accordance with the law or ignores your payment requests and gets a warning as a non-payer through eBay? In both cases, you have not successfully sold the item.
People not paying for purchased items or cancelling them, or even worse, cancelling items that have already been paid for, has to be part of the daily business for a commercial seller and a risk you have to be aware of when you take the step of turning this into a business.
I don’t understand why you would then want to make it even harder for the other buyers to bid on or buy something on eBay? In principle, this is the same behavior as the entertainment industry in the early 2000s, when the honest buyer was robbed of the fun by copy protection measures or annoying anti-software-piracy ad clips on purchased DVDs - the software pirates themselves didn’t care, they simply left out these notices or "protective measures" in their copies.
And in principle, that’s exactly what you want. You want to make access to eBay harder, because your plans can only be implemented if buyers are subjected to the same eBay harassment as sellers. What do you think, how many people will still browse here if, from the moment they register, they are placed under general suspicion of merely existing to make life difficult for sellers like you? I no longer sell on eBay because I don’t want to submit to eBay’s rules. Do you really think that in today’s world of fierce Chinese competition I would still buy on eBay if, as a buyer, I had to do exactly what made me turn my back on eBay as a seller? Do you really think that most buyers on eBay would accept having to authorize direct debit as a buyer on eBay, just because one or another person submits their cancellation declaration inadequately?
What exactly is the difference in the procedure if someone cancels after four days or if eBay automatically issues a warning for non-payment and the item is released for relisting. What exactly is the extra effort?
I could actually understand it with private sellers who don’t offer any right of cancellation at all, that they would get upset about this - but that’s just how it is on eBay. You not only have the chance to attract a lot of interested people to your items, but there is also the risk of running into someone who doesn’t really mean business.
But where exactly, in the end, is the difference between someone who cancels after four days and someone who doesn’t pay within those four days. Isn’t the result ultimately the same? In both cases you assumed a successful sale, but you don’t get any money for the item and have to try again. So where is the difference in the sales statistics or your revenue if 490 out of 500 items are cancelled compared to 490 unpaid items? Do you write a confirmation email when the cancellation has been accepted? Do you send a message when a sale is cancelled because of non-payment? Isn’t that basically the same process, just with different signs? Don’t you get your selling fee refunded in both cases? I’m not asking this for a friend, but for myself. I was never a commercial seller; it would have been way too much stress for me even 20 years ago, when the EU wasn’t quite this crazy yet. I’m honestly interested in where the differences lie in handling.
Because to me, in principle, it’s more or less the same thing; I even think that as a commercial seller you have a bit more work with a proper cancellation than in a non-payer case. I actually have never had a non-payer case on eBay as the "offender", only as the "victim". So I don’t know whether, and to what extent, you still have email contact with the seller afterwards as a non-payer. Whether the seller, even as a commercial seller, then also sends a written notice that the purchase contract has lapsed due to non-payment, whether this happens automatically (here in the forum we tell affected sellers that the purchase contract would still have to be cancelled in writing in order to be on the safe side. But that was before the automatic purchase processing via eBay).
And sorry if I say this here now, but if 490 out of 500 auctions are unpaid, it seems to me that you are no longer entirely objective in assessing the situation. This should not be about punishing others, but about measures that could improve the situation. And in my opinion, this is not the right approach.
Because then I would definitely be gone from eBay, even though I admittedly haven’t left huge sums of money here in recent years.
But if I imagine, for example, that buyer verification would work just like it does for sellers, meaning that from the first successful purchase you would have to verify yourself with an ID card and bank account, the number of non-payers would certainly increase significantly, and they’d already be fed up.
In general, there’s nothing wrong with having a plan, but you should also think it through to the end.
And to me, as an amateur, it’s all the same whether someone cancels or is a non-payer. Even if, of course, it is handled differently legally. And you could sue a non-payer for fulfillment of the purchase contract. But the result at the end of the day is the same - an unpaid item that ultimately was not sold successfully.
Or is the difference that for one case you can blame the general public and the legislature, while in the other case it’s a clearly known individual who is the wrongdoer?
mmstore74
OP11 months agoHello everyone, I have another one of those candidates again 😫
@anna_s@ebay , I had another suggestion: why can't it be set up so that people like this have to pay the seller a sort of compensation fee of 10% of the purchase price when they don't pay, then they'd definitely think twice about doing something like this.
I mean eBay used to do something like that itself when you didn't pay your fees on time; if I remember correctly, it was initially €8 and then €16 afterward.
Kind regards
Marc
katzenjogi
·11 months agoHello @mmstore74
if eBay were to implement suggestions like that, there would no longer be any guest purchases. Every buyer would have to identify themselves here during registration like a seller with an ID card, and every buyer would first have to have their bank account verified before they could buy anything.
How many buyers do you think would still be left then? Probably only those who are already registered on eBay as sellers anyway.
Making buying more complicated for buyers is hardly likely to lead to generating more sales. However annoying the effort and the frustration over non-payers may be...
mmstore74
OP11 months agoHello @katzenjogi ,
you wrote the following.
Making buying more complicated for buyers is hardly likely to lead to generating more sales. As annoying as the hassle from and the frustration over non-payers may be...
Don't mean any offense, but do you seriously mean it with not making it more complicated?
Who exactly here always has to follow new rules, observe and implement laws, not cough wrong in front of buyers, and then you write, because I made this suggestion, that one should not make it so "hard" for buyers?
The commercial seller is mostly always at a disadvantage here anyway, and what would it be like if you sold 500 items a month as bids and 490 don't pay, would you definitely brush it off like that too, or ?
hasjana
·11 months agoBasically, this setting "Buyers must specify a payment method before they can send a price proposal" could also be extended to auctions and normal Buy It Now purchases; maybe some people would then think a bit more carefully before placing a bid / buying, whether they really want the item
katzenjogi
·11 months agoHello @mmstore74
if I were a commercial seller, I would honestly just tick it off. For me it would be six of one, half a dozen of the other whether 490 items weren’t paid for or 490 items were withdrawn.
Because for me as a commercial seller the result would be the same - the item in question was not successfully paid for. I wouldn’t make a big fuss and personally feel attacked by every buyer who doesn’t pay for the item they bought. In the last 20 years people have just become more and more comfortable - and I personally shake my head quite often too. But you can’t fight convenience by artificially making everything more complicated.
It’s a bit like the early 2000s, when suddenly all entertainment media got copy protection, all DVDs contained those embarrassing anti-piracy commercials, which in the end only harassed honest buyers - they had to live with the copy protection, which sometimes made playback or installation impossible (and in some cases still does) or be forced to sit through those little info films every single time, even though you were already looking forward to a movie experience.
And in my opinion, nothing else is it if there were to be financial penalties for non-payers here. Because that would mean buyers, just like sellers, would have to be verified. With a corresponding bank account. Apart from that, if, as is usual with eBay, it is only implemented once the buyer has made their first purchase, what then stops them from simply not entering any data? Would something like that actually impress anyone who never intended to pay in the first place? Not to mention that then nobody would be able to buy as a guest anymore.
I would then finally turn my back on eBay, not only as a seller as I have for years, but also as a buyer. Giving eBay access to my bank account was a no-go for payment processing for sellers. As a buyer, it would simply be the same no-go.
And I’m not some hit dog barking because it feels addressed - I pay for the items I buy. I have, however, once been reported as a non-payer, long before payment processing was introduced, but I was able to prove the payment by bank transfer using a bank statement. I never received the item itself, though....
beorocky
·11 months agoThis is a good and absolutely sensible suggestion that I can only support!!
weisswerwieviel
·11 months agoDon't just give prank bidders negative ratings, but also suspend them for the first ten days. If repeated, then for about 20 days.
That would be my idea.
mmstore74
OP1 year ago@petersmodellbahnstuebchen
Hello Peter,
so I’ll rule out the "archenemy" for now, since it only affected auctions / did affect auctions and the buyers were also from various European countries, DE as well
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year ago@mmstore74
Hi Marc,
I can't judge what the situation is with foreign bidders with non-German delivery addresses, since I only ship to German addresses.
And if it's different "buyers" all the time, I'd keep continuously feeding my blocklist. There's still plenty of room on it.
mmstore74
OP1 year agoGood morning everyone,
@terri131719 I didn't write that you should rate them negatively after 4 days, but that after the 4 days you have to wait anyway, you should wait another 4 days.
@miriam@ebay yesterday the purchase was canceled again about 10 seconds after the auction ended.
He was the only bidder and had bid 3 seconds earlier. In 8 days, 8 cancellations, and only with auctions — I haven't had that many cancellations in all 18 years.
I still have 4 auctions running and 2 end today, and I'm curious to see what happens there. I won't be running auctions anymore; I'd rather watch the news and get annoyed that way.
Or another suggestion: exclude joke bidders who cancel 2 purchases within a short time from bidding for 2 weeks or 1 month
Have a nice day everyone
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year ago@mmstore74
Hi Marc,
as I wrote yesterday, either you have crap on your fingers or one / several sworn enemies.
In the last 12 months I’ve had 22 canceled transactions, of which just 2 were non-payers:
And if that scale is the same across the whole system, Ebay certainly won’t invest in a change to the process. I think that in such a case the specialist department would also do a cost-benefit analysis before making a change, and then first come to a decision.
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year ago@mmstore74
Hi Marc,
sorry I miscounted, there were 3 non-payers 🙂
mmstore74
OP1 year ago@petersmodellbahnstuebchen
Hello Peter
you might think now or even say that I’m making a big deal out of everything, and yes, I do that when it comes to fairness and justice, and if you now tell me that we merchants are treated FAIRLY here compared to private sellers, then I will never write anything here again and avoid this community.
Hello @miriam@ebay
You see, you write straight away that what you write probably doesn’t matter to me, why do you write something like that? I just don’t want things to be beat around the bush here and for you to do it again, and for you again not to answer my question about what is fair about these ratings and buyers being wrapped in cotton wool, and how a fair and respectful feedback culture is supposed to be ensured, without escalation or so-called revenge ratings?
Buyer leaves seller negative feedback because:
1. Package arrived late even though it was shipped on the day of purchase
2.Package smells like smoke (well, delivery drivers and co. are all non-smokers and don’t smoke either)
3.Too small or too big
4.Don’t like the color, red isn’t red enough
5.Had to pick up package from branch instead of it being delivered
An example from me, even though it’s a neutral one and I had requested removal, what is the point of a rating like that please, even if it had been left that negatively, I would have had zero chance of getting it removed and I asked the buyer what was going on, I’m still waiting for the answer today
But as in real life, the bad ones are wrapped in cotton wool and the others have to keep their mouths shut, and with that the topic is done and I wish you a nice day
Thanks, I’m done
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year ago@mmstore74
Hi Marc,
I have not claimed, and will never claim, that there are fair competitive conditions in the competition between private and commercial sellers on eBay. The fee structure is far too one-sided for that. But here we are drifting back to a topic that has absolutely nothing to do with your original post.
However, I do not see this competitive disadvantage when it comes to ratings. The cases you mentioned can affect private sellers just as well and have the same consequences as with commercial sellers.
mmstore74
OP1 year ago@petersmodellbahnstuebchen Peter, I was only referring to the fairness that @miriam@ebay was talking about.
If you make 2 mistakes as a commercial seller, you get 2 defects and are downgraded from TOP seller to above or below average, I don't need to tell you what effects that could have, or do you think eBay says, oh, Peter has been around for so long, we'll let his mistakes slide 🤔
That's fairness, we feel it immediately and non-payers just make a new account and carry on.
But let's leave it at that.
Wishing you a nice day, Peter, and no hard feelings😎🍻
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year ago@mmstore74
Hi Marc, I rarely take anything the wrong way, and certainly not from you 🤗
But still, do you really think private sellers wouldn’t have to fear any impact on their service status and service statistics? Please don’t write that it doesn’t matter, because they’re selling for free anyway. Depending on their status and statistics, they also have to fear financial and other consequences.
As for the consequences for buyers, the non-payers can of course open a new account again, but at the latest after two new non-payer cases they are blocked again by most sellers (including me). And how many there really are, I have no idea, probably 0.001 per mille.
And don’t underestimate the effectiveness of the security checks running in the background on the major trading platforms, not just on eBay. We should never know what processes are really going on in the background, and we never will. All platforms have an interest in sales actually being completed, because that’s how they make money, among other things.
mmstore74
OP1 year ago@petersmodellbahnstuebchen
Peter, thanks for the flowers😁
I actually didn’t want to anymore, but I’ll make an exception for you.
Maybe we’re misunderstanding each other right now.
Someone who wants to harm or annoy you doesn’t have much to fear; if eBay or you block them, they make a new account and start over. You or I, on the other hand, can’t just quickly create a new account, because we also have regular customers and may have built up a reputation, and who do you think would suffer more from sanctions?
It would have to be done like on klein.., where the ID / IP address (please correct me) is blocked directly and you can’t get a new account through that connection; here you can have hundreds of them and use them for silly stuff.
How many do you think I have that got the account shut down at 29 ratings and opened a new one, because they think that way they can avoid the report to the tax office
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year ago@mmstore74
Hi Marc,
people like that don't even need a new account. You can also shop on eBay as a guest. But for a new account you need a new email address, a different name, or a different address.
Do you really think eBay is so bad at IT that the processes in the background wouldn't notice that? I do have a bit more trust in eBay IT than that. The only question is what eBay does with the findings.
Whether the concerns of little guys like you and me are taken into account is another matter. From eBay's point of view, we're basically just small fish in a big pond worldwide. And I'm not saying that as a mentor, but as a commercial seller.
And, honestly, the few non-payment cases I have each year hardly make a dent. Maybe model railroaders really are the better people after all? 😉
bootyooty
·1 year agoHey @petersmodellbahnstuebchen but as a guest you can't rate 😉 and you also won't receive a rating
miriam@ebay
Hello @mmstore74 - It’s a shame that this thread is turning out so tense and that you’re carrying so much anger and disappointment with you - I’m truly sorry about that.
It’s difficult for me to respond specifically to your hypothetical review comments, since there are currently no open requests for review removal – when reviewing, we always also take the actual offer into account (images + item description) as well as the communication between buyer and seller, so without a specific case I’m not able to give a clear assessment.
As for your own review: in certain exceptional cases, a review can be removed with appropriate proof, for example if the cause was clearly outside your control. The "No" could be understood as an answer to the question we asked, "Please share your feedback with us?" I also don’t see any (further) follow-up question to the buyer in our messaging system, and it’s difficult to properly revisit the case after so much time has passed.
Kind regards
Miriam
mmstore74
OP1 year agoHello @miriam@ebay
I’ve cooled down again by now and with the example reviews that are plentiful with sellers, I meant whether something like that is fair?
Wishing everyone a nice end to the workday and no hard feelings @miriam@ebay 🌷💙😊
mmstore74
OP1 year agoGood morning @miriam@ebay
even if I’m going to be the bad guy again, I’d like to write / ask you something.
You wrote the following. @miriam@ebay wrote:
The rating function was deliberately designed so that sellers cannot leave negative feedback for buyers. This is intended to ensure a fair and respectful feedback culture.
For me, it’s only about the FAIR, because hardly anyone has any respect anyway.
Please be so kind and tell me what is fair about that, or is supposed to be fair
Buyers rate sellers negatively because:
1. Package arrived late even though it was shipped on the day of purchase
2.Package smells like smoke ( Well, parcel couriers and the like are all non-smokers and don’t smoke either )
3.Too small or too big
4.Don’t like the color, red isn’t red enough
5.Had to pick up the package from a branch instead of it being delivered
These are just examples of things the seller can’t do anything about, and you know that there are thousands of such ratings, so what is fair about that in your opinion?
Now you’ll probably write, yes, then it can be reported etc., so the seller has to deal with it and beg for such a rating to be removed, right?
Furthermore, you write @miriam@ebay wrote:
Buyers who do not behave in accordance with the contract are noted by us internally and will also be sanctioned if they repeatedly misbehave.
So as a buyer you definitely have a free pass, and as a business seller I get hit with the club straight away for one violation, is that fair
That’s just about fairness, and you know what would really be fair? If sellers were given the chance to correct mistakes or other issues, and at least this option should be introduced, so that before leaving negative feedback, one would first have to contact the seller to clarify the matter, but no one is interested in that either, and now the sentence will probably come: "You can’t force people"
So keep quiet, accept everything, pay on time and eBay is happy
I wish you a nice day and would be happy to get your reply, and please don’t beat around the bush, thanks
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year ago@mmstore74
Morning Marc,
even though I’m not @miriam@ebay ,
maybe here’s my take on the cases mentioned
In my opinion, these are all cases that have happened to us commercial sellers from time to time and cannot be ruled out in online retail. And as a seller on such a platform, you simply have to weigh up to what extent you can live with buyer protection and whether seller protection offsets some of these risks.
Your cases 1 and 5 can largely be ruled out by shipping with proof of delivery and handover, or corrected with a request to remove the rating.
Cases 2 - 5 are purely subjective buyer perceptions and can neither be checked by Ebay nor disproven by the seller. They can only be largely ruled out by pure self-collection and forgoing shipping. However, whether the restriction of the buyer pool through self-collection then makes the advantage of a few better ratings worthwhile
Whether every neutral or red rating really has to be changed is another question.
I also don’t report cases 2 - 5; instead, I look at the customer’s other ratings afterward and decide whether they’re allowed to buy from me again or not.
In that sense, I don’t find Ebay’s approach all that tragic.
And I’m sure that dear @miriam@ebay will definitely reply to you, as long as the timing works out.
miriam@ebay
Hello @mmstore74 - to be honest, I have the feeling that it doesn't matter to you what I write here anymore – you're probably not going to be satisfied with our answer. So, straight up: is there a specific review you received that you think is unfair? Then I'll be happy to take a look at it and check whether removal is possible.
Best regards
Miriam
miss_orgy
·11 months agoI see it the same way, too. Buyers keep leaving unfair ratings that are completely made up on top of that. Until recently, I had one like that hanging around for a year.... The lady had auctioned off yarn for 1 euro. She claimed my stated weight was wrong - yes, I had listed 200 g, but the lady received just under 300 g. Then she complained about the shipping costs, saying I hadn’t sent it as merchandise mail. But that skein was too thick - more than 5 cm including packaging. And that could only go as a parcel. But it was clearly stated in the listing. Because everything already seemed too vague to me from the discussions beforehand, I sent it as insured Hermes parcel service, not as uninsured DHL. I’m sure it wouldn’t have arrived otherwise. But she wrote that I had sent it without a tracking number. Which wasn’t true, which she also knew, because as a rule you also have to sign for a Hermes parcel.
But now I had this nasty negative rating. I reported it to eBay, contacted the buyer - but nobody helped me. It stayed there for a year. And if you don’t sell that much or don’t have that many ratings, then you quickly slip down to 98%. And then hardly anyone buys anymore, because very few people bother to look it up, since I had written something about it in the ratings.
There is NOTHING fair going on in that area. People have no shame. They lie that something didn’t arrive (also with parcels, but if DHL only leaves it at the door, that still doesn’t mean it isn’t insured and scanned.) I don’t know how many times I’ve already threatened to go to a lawyer or file a report so that something happened and was then handled correctly.
katzenjogi
·1 year agoHello @mmstore74
As a consumer, I’m left wondering what makes the difference for you between a non-payer and a buyer who revokes the contract? With the latter, at least you know where you stand, and in most cases the revocation will also happen more quickly than after four days.
But basically (even if the legislator doesn’t see it that way), isn’t the process of an order not being paid for basically something like a “silent” revocation?
As I know it from a majority of online retailers, although it is legally required at checkout to “place a binding order with payment obligation now,” after a certain period of non-payment the purchase contract is declared void. Whether the online retailers then bar the customers from further transactions the first time this happens, I can’t say from experience. However, it would be new to me if they then demanded damages.
So where exactly is the difference between a non-payer and someone who revokes? Wouldn’t it be easier — at least emotionally — to regard non-payers as someone who revokes without communicating? You can still give them a negative rating and then have them automatically warned after four days for non-payment and put on your own blacklist.
But otherwise? Back then, I actually only used buyer ratings to decide for myself whether I would ship the sold item before payment was received or not. That was back when there were still negative ratings for buyers. But back then, you also only sent a payment reminder after 14 days; eBay still allowed three days to even establish communication with the contractual partner, and everything seemed a little more relaxed to me back then...
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year ago@mmstore74
Hi Marc,
unfortunately I can't see much value in your post. Why should Ebay soften the principle that buyers are not rated negatively in such cases, or even penalize them with any fees.
Aside from the reasons you mentioned, there are plenty of reasons for non-payment outside the buyer's control, e.g. sudden illness, accidents, etc. Then you definitely don't think about such mundane matters as Ebay. And not all app users always have their phone with them. This buyer group would also be affected.
There will always be non-serious bidders, and everyone has to be aware of that when they list auctions or work with price suggestions.
miriam@ebay
Hello @mmstore74 and many thanks for your new post and your feedback 🙂.
It is certainly frustrating when buyers bid on an item and then do not pay. Such incidents create unnecessary effort and have a negative impact on the business.
Regarding your suggestion that buyers should automatically receive a negative rating after the 4-day payment deadline has passed, we would like to explain the background to the current approach. The rating function was deliberately designed so that sellers cannot leave negative ratings for buyers. This is intended to ensure a fair and respectful feedback culture without escalation or so-called revenge ratings. Instead, we recommend that sellers use the existing procedure for reporting unpaid items. Buyers who do not act in accordance with the contract are noted internally by us and are also sanctioned in the event of repeated misconduct. Even though these measures are not directly visible to you, they do have an effect on the behavior and usage options of the accounts concerned (you can also read examples of this here in the community from time to time).
Your second suggestion, to deduct a flat 30 percent of the purchase price in the event of non-payment, is legally problematic and also not compatible with applicable consumer protection law.
What you can do at any time, however, is use the official procedures for dealing with non-paying customers. Set up automatic bidder blocks and activate the "Immediate payment required" option.
Work is continuously being done to make eBay safer and more efficient. Your feedback will be taken into account in future considerations.
Kind regards
Miriam
kenn-i-di-1
·1 year ago@mmstore74 it's about auctions.
There is no option for "immediate payment required" there. With Buy It Now, later payment or no payment at all isn't possible anyway. Without immediate payment, an item is considered not purchased.
petersmodellbahnstuebchen
·1 year agoHi @kenn-i-di-1 ,
don't forget, even with price offers on buy-it-now items, payment doesn't have to be made immediately. Here too, customers can still keep collecting.
trading-and-more
·3 months agoHello Miriam, your explanation of why not, for reasons of fairness etc., the seller is not allowed to leave negative feedback.
1) it is not the seller who leaves negative feedback, but eBay, because of an unpaid item, and that must not trigger an escalation,
because first of all, this was brought about solely and entirely by the buyer himself through his non-eBay-compliant behavior
second, this would lead to the buyers' behavior changing for the better, because NOBODY wants to publicly out themselves as a NON-PAYER, maybe they will think twice, and a third time probably never again
third, it would also be beneficial for all sellers when deciding whether to send this buyer a price suggestion or accept one and thus sell to them and/or not do so for that very reason.
I think that's FAIR, because to rate means to rate, both for the buyer and for the seller, everything else is just a prettified and not real rating system.
I think eBay can introduce this without much effort, just like the automatic rating that is already running, although if we're honest, that is not necessarily real and objective either, because how would/should eBay know what the buyer is thinking, how they find the item, etc. etc.
So someone who does not pay should also be marked as a non-payer in this respect; everything that happens in the background and/or does not happen after countless reports, only the good Lord and eBay know, and not the one who has to suffer under it: THE SELLERS
Wishing you all the best
Regards, Oliver
nudeldickerhans
·1 year ago"How do you see it?"
Not like that!
kenn-i-di-1
·1 year agoIt would already be enough if eBay would sanction these "bidders for fun" more harshly.
After 2 non-paying cases, a warning, after the third, kicked out.
Back then, it was so that bans affected people. So if Mr. or Ms. Mustermann had a ban, no further account could be opened with that name and address.
Today, unfortunately, it is so that bans only affect accounts. So if Mustermann gets banned, Mustermann 1 can just make a new account and off they go.
The ban lists can therefore be easily circumvented.
dartshop_luggis_de
·1 year agoHello Marc @mmstore74 ,
I’m guessing your jokesters are typical bored teenagers who don’t know what to do with their time.
So they just opened an account, I’d be surprised if it was in their own name, but maybe it’s also an unused account of a family member, bidding here and there to see what happens and then disappearing again.
To protect a seller from this nonsense, eBay would have to go straight after every jokester for the full amount and not just wag a finger.
That would spread around the web very quickly and then it would stop.
But on eBay you’re on a platform that grants everything to private users, even if it makes life harder for a paying seller.
Wonderful, idyllic eBay world. 👍
voli-maus
·1 year ago@dartshop_luggis_de ,
why do you assume that youngsters bid out of "boredom"?
dartshop_luggis_de
·1 year ago@voli-maus
Because I myself did a lot of nonsense in my youth that I hadn't thought about beforehand, and I didn't care about the consequences either.
And young people today are no different from young people 100 years ago.
You test boundaries, what could possibly happen.
Nowadays there isn't even an educational measure for it anymore.
Topic closed here now, since it has nothing to do with what the OP is talking about.
voli-maus
·1 year agoHm, in my shop mostly older people steal, but really badly.
To your face they say kindly "Hello and you have a nice shop", and behind your back they rob you.
All the best to you.
molfish
·1 year ago@voli-maus
Hey Voli,
where is your shop?
I'm also a bit older and usually friendly.............😂
nudeldickerhans
·1 year ago"Hm, mostly older people steal in my shop, but really."
Probably exactly the same old folks who, outside after visiting the store, drive a huge mess into each other with their tank-like cars!
voli-maus
·1 year agoYou’re basically a tenant at ebay, @mmstore74 .
And you pay a whole lot for that.
And every day you have a customer who “acts up,” and that really gets on your nerves.
voli-maus
·1 year agoHey @mmstore74 ,
a new thread every day .....😉😎🙄
Are you trying to set some kind of record ? 🤔
The topic: "Negative feedback for buyers" comes up about once or twice a week in the community.
What good does it do me as a seller if someone buys something from me, doesn’t pay, and then I later see the "negative" feedback on that buyer.
It does me no good at all, because that user bought from me and didn’t pay.
They get a non-payer note, and a spot alongside many others on the bidder block list.
So now you’re stuck with the fees ?