Suggestion for improvement: Consistent view for non-EU article prices
There are currently 195 recognized states. 27 of them belong to the EU in 2024.
That means we have 168 third countries.
According to the Price Indication Ordinance, buyers must always see the total price (item price incl. tax) of the goods, unless it is platforms on which only commercial buyers and sellers operate.
Now the question is how to find a uniform rule for this on eBay, since the price indications sometimes differ even though "incl. VAT" is shown.
I’ll stick with "our" Chinese sellers as an example (this also applies to all other third-country sellers). There are at least six provider groups:
1. Group: complete profile and item location = China
2. Group: complete profile and item location = Germany
3. Group: VAT ID provided and location = China
4. Group: VAT ID provided and location = Germany
5. Group: without VAT ID and location = China
6. Group: without VAT ID and location = Germany
Finding 1: for eBay it is not verifiable whether, with location "Germany", the goods were properly declared and thus properly cleared through customs.
Finding 2: eBay is not responsible for customs clearance, only for withholding the value-added tax.
Finding 3: although "incl. VAT" is stated, the total calculation is sometimes then made "plus VAT".
That last point in particular is not visible with every purchase. Nor are the previous rules that eBay applies in the background.
Aside from the fact that groups 5 and 6 should not be selling here anyway (should not be allowed to) until proof of a valid VAT ID has been provided, because eBay has been liable for VAT since 2021. So there should also be a certain self-interest in "self-protection".
Improvement suggestion 1: All sale prices should be displayed as a "gross price".
Improvement suggestion 2: Notices about import tax and customs duties should be clearly visible below the item price and not hidden in tabs that are not visible when using the app. After all, the total price is decisive for some sellers.
For most private customers, it probably wouldn’t matter whether eBay withholds the VAT for a third-country seller and, as a platform, fulfills the obligations assigned to it. In the best case, they get an invoice with VAT shown from eBay.
What remains open is the issue for commercial buyers/sellers who, as part of EU trade, agree to the "reverse charge" procedure in goods trade. In that case, eBay must not issue a VAT invoice at all in order to avoid double taxation. So far, only the country of origin and the destination country are taken into account. This also needs to be improved.
Best regards
Thomas
ttd4it
OP2 years ago@miriam@ebay
Topic OSS invoice.
The OSS invoices are missing the line for the calculated gross amount, which forms the basis for calculating the VAT. So far, you have to add this line manually so that a third party can immediately see the amount from which it was calculated.
In addition, the discount should also state who granted it.
ttd4it
OP2 years ago@miriam@ebay
So that outsiders can also understand: (in comparison to message 3)
Screenshot 1: now shows the price of €15.55 and the addition "incl. VAT"
As before, the checkout still says that the amount does not include "VAT".
Screenshot 2: "Buyer’s VAT ID stored on eBay. The displayed total amount does not include VAT (if applicable). "
The item location is Hamburg, so the amount must also be shown plus VAT.
In that case, €18.50. Ebay creates an OSS invoice for the seller and thus fulfills its marketplace obligation to withhold VAT.
It would be different if the location were a third country, then the price of €15.55 could remain. However, it would have to be linked with the note that import sales tax and customs duties are due.
On the other hand, you would then not be allowed to issue an OSS invoice, because the customer pays the import sales tax/VAT at customs and it is therefore not withheld by you.
ttd4it
OP2 years ago@miriam@ebay
To complete the thread ... the screenshot from the app:
ttd4it
OP2 years ago@miriam@ebay
I also looked up another item for you:
Item number: 375010984856
Listing for the end customer: (the note about the tax "plus VAT" is missing here))
or else end-customer prices are always incl. VAT.. so €18.50. In the app it says "incl. VAT"
As "hectic" as eBay purchases sometimes happen, there is a chance that a certain number of buyers will overlook that.
At checkout, the note about VAT then follows.
Then the buyer only has to remember to take the eBay invoice to customs so it becomes clear that import sales tax/VAT has already been paid.
----- topic change ----
Then I compared a domestic purchase (order number: 26-11687-78531) with the example from message 3 (order number: 24-11714-59538) and looked up the OSS invoice beforehand. Sometimes the gross price is used, and other times the net price.
Best regards
Thomas
miriam@ebay
Hello @ttd4it! We looked into that too and currently cannot confirm the problem; in the desktop view as well, (incl. VAT) is displayed:
Please note that not all conceivable tax scenarios can be shown on the item pages. What matters, therefore, is what is displayed at checkout after selecting the delivery address.
I can pass on that it bothers you when, for OSS invoices, the amounts are sometimes shown gross and sometimes net. But I also don't really understand the fuss here, because from a tax invoice you'd expect a proper breakdown of the amounts and the tax paid, wouldn't you? The most important thing is that the calculation is correct, and it is 🙂.
Best regards
Miriam
miriam@ebay
In addition to that, I have included your two suggestions as well, thanks for that!
Best regards
Miriam
miriam@ebay
Hello @ttd4it! We looked into it and cannot confirm your statement.
A test purchase showed that the VAT is included before completing the purchase; after the purchase is completed, the amount on the right is shown net and we list the VAT separately. The two different views probably led to the confusion on your side. At the moment we cannot confirm an error; the calculations are correct.
Thanks for your patience during the review and kind regards
Miriam
ttd4it
OP2 years ago@miriam@ebay
Slowly, I really can no longer understand what is going wrong in the back office/programming.
If in the example above the €226.86 had been net, the invoice would have to read:
(€226.86 - €27.00) = €199.98 / 100 * 119 = €237.83
So it is not clear from the invoice provided how you can come up €5.13 short.
You also should not mix gross and net values.
But I think it is about the following invoice calculation:
1. Alternative calculation: (the solution)
€226.86 (net) / 100 * 119 = €269.96 (gross) - 27.00 (gross) = €242.96 (gross) / 119 * 100 = €204.17 (net)
€242.96 - €204.17 = €38.79 (VAT)
That is also €4.32 too much VAT according to your calculation.
(see attached links)
2. Alternative calculation:
€269.96 (gross) / 119 * 100 = €226,86 (net)
This then results in €43.10 VAT = €269.96 - €226.86.
That corresponds to your calculation rounded to the nearest cent. However, the original invoice issued on behalf of the seller should also include an intermediate line showing the invoice amount of €269.96 and a line with the pay amount.
It should also be clearly visible which discount was granted. It makes a difference whether eBay grants the discount or the buyer sponsors the promotion.
Of course, the discount that reduces the VAT for the buyer and must be taken into account is now missing.
As a supplement, two links:
https://www.steuerberatungbeck.de/news/oktober_2017/umsatzsteuer_richtige_bemessungsgrundlage_bei_rabattgew%C3%A4hrung/
Author: Tax consultant Claudia Beck
https://www.scopevisio.com/blog/finanzbuchhaltung/rabatt-richtig-verwenden-und-buchen/
(with example calculation)
!!! Important !!!
Quote: "Discounts and VAT
The seller does not have to pay VAT on a price reduction granted. Since the revenue decreases, the VAT assessment base also decreases."
Given the high number of invoices eBay produces every day, this issue should have top priority.
ttd4it
OP2 years agoHere’s an example too:
Order number: 24-11714-59538
The purchase was discounted, and the displayed total price includes VAT.
The first screenshot refers to the current price. But here too it is unclear which discount the buyer is actually getting. 5%, 6% or 10% (max €10.00) — but that comes to €83.59 - €70.72 = €12.87
Order overview:
We’ll keep in mind that prices are shown "incl. VAT".
So this is what the invoice from eBay looks like: (€73.94 + €72.26 + €80.66 = €226.86)
Invoice: 226.86 - €27.00 = €199.86 incl. VAT. So the net amount would have been €167.95.
So €43.11 was overpaid.
@miriam@ebay?
@steffi@ebay??
Who passes this on to the specialist department?
After all, there is also the issue of reclaiming VAT. (and an entry in the Excel list)
Best regards
Thomas
ttd4it
OP2 years ago@steffi@ebay
Just a little tip for the eBay tech team. For shipments from the UK, the notice about charges and customs duties works.
Please also roll this out to all other non-EU countries 😉