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Community-Mitglied
Beiträge: 2
Registriert: ‎16-05-2013

Bitcoin und PayPal - BETRUG!

Hi,


 


im not very good in german so i will write in english if its allowed here. What I want to speak about is how you can get easly tricked here in Ebay. Few days ago I've sold 0,5 BTC (its a kind of internet money - Bitcoin). Buyer paid 5 minutes later with PayPal. I've sent to him his 0,5 BTC and i thought that all is fine but sadly it wasnt. Next day i recieved an email from PayPal staff that the buyer didn't authorize this transaction (he said someone hacked his account). They have suspended my money (that i recived for selling BTC) and asked me for an explenation or any proofs that I have sent the item which I sold.


 


When you send Bitcoins to someone - you dont get any proof, bill or anything like that. You just send them to an account that buyer told you and its done - he should recieve it in less than 5 minutes. And so I did.


 


Whats also important - u cant get back Bitcoins that have already been sent!


 


 


Two days after the transaction PayPal returned the money to the buyer. I,ve lost both - money (62E) and BTC. My question is - where is the ,,VERKAUFERSCHUTZ" right now?!? I have more than 120 (positive only) comments. Buyer has SIX. Seems that my reliability and my comments mean less than zero in here. Not to mention that this day I've sold also 3x0,5 BTC and I recieved postive comments for it.


 


This is a massive security breach on Ebay. Right now I could buy 10 BTC , pay with PayPal and trick people for more than 1000E like this because PayPal would return the money back to me.


 


If anybody is willng to answer me - please write in english. If you have any questions - feel free to ask. Thanks for your time.


 


Regards

Senior Member
Beiträge: 27.039
Registriert: ‎09-07-2010

Betr.: Bitcoin und PayPal - BETRUG!

 


Did you read the PayPal-terms?


 


no?


 


blame themselves


 


 

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Community-Mitglied
Beiträge: 2
Registriert: ‎16-05-2013

Betr.: Bitcoin und PayPal - BETRUG!

No - you are right i didnt read those terms. I called PayPal and they admit that they have no solution for this kind of frauds.


 


Im not going to cry here that I've lost 60 E - my goal is rather to block account of this fraud if its possible and to alert other users.


 


The only proof that I have is transaction reference number from Mt.Gox.com. Sadly i have no idea how can i check what this number gives me. Where can I put it so other people can see the adress in wchih my BTC has been sent - that could be a solution and a proof of sending i think.

Senior Member
Beiträge: 6.465
Registriert: ‎19-11-2011

Betr.: Bitcoin und PayPal - BETRUG!

It's some sort of selfmade problems, virtual items are not covered by PayPal safety program either for seller nor buyers.


 


It is even forbidden do sell some kind of money and let the buyer pay with PayPal through the PayPal agbs.


 


To get the money back, the buyer cannot not easily report a undelivered item, he must make a fraud report at PayPal for his account. For safety measures, such reports are only possible a few times, before the account will be closed down...

Community-Mitglied
Beiträge: 1
Registriert: ‎04-12-2013

Betreff: Bitcoin und PayPal - BETRUG!

I have the same Problem at this moment.
But I don't think that this is a problem, if paypal is willing to keep cheater outside.
Every transaktion is locked in the eternal blockchain. That's why anyhow the bitcoin system works like it works.
And there are tools to investigate the blockchain like www.blockchain.info
With the blockchain there are tangible evidences about transactions in the bitcoin system and it's public for everyone.

 

I have a person who bought 2 times 0.01 bitcoin from me. after he send me his the money over paypal and his bitcoin address over ebay message system i send 2 times 0.01 bitcoin to him. then after the transaction has arrived at his address and was confirmed from some users of the network, less, than  30 minutes after i sent the btc, he said that the btc did not arrived to him and tried to get back his money over "käuferschutz" from paypal.
there are several clues, that his goal was nothing else than trick.
first: in his first message, he was not interesten in clear the situation, he immediately just wants back his money because he did not received the btc.
second: why did he after about 30 minutes know that the btc did not arrived to him? if they really not arrived, normally i wait a half day or a day and then i can say they did not arrive. but he knows after about 30 minutes that they not arrived and immediately tries to call his money back from paypal. so thats an clue for me, that he just want to trick.

next thing is. in a long conversation with him, he wasn't interrestet to cooperate and find a solution. I asked him several times if the address he transmittet to me was not his. but no reaction about ths question an I asket about 5 times or more, expressly.

The only thing, that he was frequently talking about was, that he got "Käuferschutz" because it's a digital article and he did not make the "agb", paypal maked it, he said.

Another thing is, he told me he also sold btc on ebay and accepted paypal the buyer also withdraw his money over paypal "Käuferschutz".

All these things are pretty clearly for me that his only goal is to trick.
Now I am waiting for a decision from paypal which should taken tomorrow.

But if paypal is not on my side, I think I take the judicial way because I can prove, that I did everything correct.

Community-Mitglied
Beiträge: 2
Registriert: ‎23-10-2012

Betreff: Bitcoin und PayPal - BETRUG!

als Antwort auf sandermann_one

Warum ist hier alles auf Englisch ????

Community-Mitglied
Beiträge: 2
Registriert: ‎23-10-2012

Betreff: Bitcoin und PayPal - BETRUG!

[ Bearbeitet ]
als Antwort auf stumpen2010

Leute Vorsicht beim Verkaufen von Bitcoin´s mit Paypal.

 

Die meisten die mit Paypal Bitcoins bezahlen sind zu 99 % Hacker die irgend welche Ebay und Paypal Accounts gehackt haben.

Und diese dann nutzen um ahnungslose Ebayverkäufer abzuzocken.

 

Also ich kann euch alle raten die Bitcoins verkaufen .

 

Akzeptiert KEIN PAYPAL .

 

Denn nur so könnt Ihr einen Betrug entgehen.

Community-Mitglied
Beiträge: 1
Registriert: ‎11-12-2013

Betreff: Bitcoin und PayPal - BETRUG!

Hi,
It happened to me right now as well, just with ten litecoins - auction ended over 400 eur.
Buyer senr money, me ltc and then he claimed his account was hacked.
Ebay deleted settled auction pointing out they can if there is suspection of hacked account.
Paypal returned money, althought I showed them links to blockchain proving time and amount of transaction of litecoins i did. Their reasoning was that I delivered goods to a wrong address :-)
I will sue buyer - I got the rechtsschutz.
He might be either scammer or looser of his digital credentials to 3 accounts at once email, ebay, paypal ☺☺:-) and getting them back just few hours after end of auction :-)
In common sense in both cases I as the seller should not be paying for that.
Has someone already undertake this hassle or join me in the filling?
Ebay with paypal is very seriously damaging their reputation. I was using it over ten years and got 100% positive feedback on my 270 transactions...