"private" sellers presenting commercially licensed items, manufacturing hundreds of new items.

[stupidamericanprinting]

Am I the idiot for not lying and trying to say I am selling my "private collection" one of these claims made by another seller, that gives them a complete unfair pricing advantage against one idiot trying to do the right thing?? Am I the commercial idiot who should maybe take eBay to court for allowing it even though they post it violates German law and eBay policy about what is "acting commerically?" I mean, one seller has made over 650 sales since they joined,only when private selling became free, that's nearly 100 sales a month. Since I have gone commercially, now I pay fees "private" sellers do not have to. Over 650 sales it's thousands of Euros. And the best part they even reference their own professionsal website thoughtout the eBay profile. They even use a photo and name of their professionl masoct.

And other smaller opperations doing the same thing.

Am I the idiot for doing the "right" thing? I have asked Ebay about this directly and they don't replay but I suppose they would answer an lawyer?

[miriam@ebay]

Hi @stupidamericanprinting - I have read your response and can only say that we have policies in place which members have to follow. The measures we take to enforce our policies are not always visible to others.

Please be aware that business sellers have to follow certain legal requirements in Germany and that the use of eBay is subject to compliance with eBay Policies, eBay Terms and Conditions and all applicable laws and respecting the rights of third parties. If activities do not meet these requirements, eBay may take appropriate action in accordance with applicable laws and the eBay Terms and Conditions - this can lead to a permanent suspension of one's eBay account(s).

You received all the information we can provide to this topic, therefore I am closing off this thread.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for selling on eBay!

- Miriam

[stupidamericanprinting]

I am not talking about taking actions against a competitor, I am talking about taking actions against a platform pushing me into fees saying I am behaving commerically according to law, yet alllows another person to do so on a larger scale.  Ever insisting "we can't give legal advice about others."  I am talking about me.  Can I sell guns on eBay? Is that legal? Do I need to seek legal advise for that?

---

According to this, a seller is considered an entrepreneur if he carries out a commercial or professional activity independently. This includes any sustainable activity aimed at generating income. The intention to make a profit is not required. Loud According to the instructions of the Federal Ministry of Finance to the German tax authorities, a turnover of EUR 22,000 or more within a calendar year is considered a clear indication that the seller is engaged in an entrepreneurial activity within the meaning of the VAT Act and registration as a commercial seller on eBay is required.

---

This is the law, period yes?  So, eBay is allowing this person to break the law, and telling me and pushing me to not break the law.  Being a reasonable person with sound mind, being that you have a job for eBay, this must be true, according to the LAW oder RECHT that you have shared to me a in link you are in fact saying what they are doing is illegal, and does go against eBay policy.  Being that they are selling similar items, it's fair to say the average sale is a bit like mine.  So, lets just call that 40 euro 657 sales x 40 is 26,280 euro. This is reasonable math, and doesn't require legal counsel.  I contest, their average is above mine, so the earning fenster from September 2023 till now puts this seller between 26,000 and 35,000 reasonably. WELL over the limit of 22,000 in one year to be registered as a private seller, and myself well under.   Yet, eBays continued statements here and otherwise are designed with the intent to push me into fees before I should have the need to pay them LEGALLY.  ME.

My account should be allowed to be Private, and the other should IN-FACT legally be commercial. Anyone with a sound mind and body of reasonable intelligence or wihtou massive professional legal knowledge should be able to conclude this.  You don't need a degree to understand the law, or the law itself is useless no?

Can you assist me with making my account private or should I simply start a new one? based on the legally obligated information you have directed me, I think I am only required to be a private seller yet.  All information provided during general inquiries leads the seller to other conclusions.  I have no problems with the other seller.  I have a problem being pushed into commercial status and fees before I am legally obligated to pay them.

Option 1) my account is restored to private seller status until I hit the over 22k granze

Option 2) I should abandon this account and start over until I hit the 22k granze, per year?


Thanks for your time,
Paul

[miriam@ebay]

---

@stupidamericanprinting  schrieb:

---

The big question is: When can a seller be classified as commercial? The case law on this is highly divergent and favors lawyers who issue warnings.

For example, the Federal Court of Justice ruled in a 2008 judgment that as few as 25 reviews are sufficient to be considered commercial. By contrast, in 2007, the Hamburg Higher Regional Court deemed a figure of 242 reviews in two years to be commercial.

It becomes problematic to sell many similar items, such as used books or a coin collection. Even ten new items posted can be considered commercial in the legal sense.

---

So the questions is again, as I have asked in email-"report" contacts, phone calls, and now forums ....

Is this legal or not? Does this violate eBay policy or not? Can I do this or not?

Rest assured I await an answer, with a paper trail.

---

Hi @stupidamericanprinting - as an eBay employee, I am not in a position to provide legal advice. If you need further information and guidance as to what actions you may be able to take (against a competitor) outside of eBay, please consulate with a qualified legal adviser.

In our Rechtsportal you can read up about how commercial trading is defined.

I am sorry to see that you feel that the responses that were previously provided to you weren't helpful, but would like to remind you that you have received an answer from me yesterday that includes the steps eBay can take and the confirmation that your report has been received. Neither myself nor my colleagues are in a position to provide you with further information as to what actions we take if we find that someone is acting like a business with a private account, this is to also respect the individuals' privacy.

Thank you for your understanding and have a good day.

Miriam

[stupidamericanprinting]

---

The big question is: When can a seller be classified as commercial? The case law on this is highly divergent and favors lawyers who issue warnings.

For example, the Federal Court of Justice ruled in a 2008 judgment that as few as 25 reviews are sufficient to be considered commercial. By contrast, in 2007, the Hamburg Higher Regional Court deemed a figure of 242 reviews in two years to be commercial.

It becomes problematic to sell many similar items, such as used books or a coin collection. Even ten new items posted can be considered commercial in the legal sense.

---

So the questions is again, as I have asked in email-"report" contacts, phone calls, and now forums ....

Is this legal or not? Does this violate eBay policy or not? Can I do this or not?

Rest assured I await an answer, with a paper trail.

[stupidamericanprinting]

I have now been going through extra hoops to document contact with eBay because everything possible is done to elminate a paper trail, which I am sure helps legally.  No email contacts, only phone calls.  No recipts of exact reports, only generic we got your message replies.  But I would assume there is a law which will allow me to resuest all contact messages I have submitted to ebay? This seems correct, I remember something about this with Alexa audio recordings here in Germany.  I'll have to dig for that too. but it will happen 😃

Rest assured.

[stupidamericanprinting]

Hi,

I have been asking this simple question, can I do this too for over a month, is this legal, nobody at ebay is answering. I get the same gerneric " you can't  know but rest assuresd"  And the legality of the actions are never addressed.  This is why I have begun to check for the best course of legal action against eBay, not the seller because eBay has giving me legal advise on one hand, and refuses on the other resulting into pushing me into sellers fees as a commerical opperator where as before I was private. 

I handle things I manufacture new as well.  I take photos, make exhibitons, and collect as well. I am entitled to the same rights as this seller, yet you make me feel like I don't have them, if what they are doing is infact legal or not,

That is the question.
Re: I believe eBay.de is misrepresenting the law - eBay Deutschland Community

[miriam@ebay]

Hi @stupidamericanprinting and thank you for taking the time to come into our Community to share your observations on another eBay member who you find is a competitor for you and your business while acting as a private seller.

I can understand your concern, and we regularly review our sellers' trading activities. Please note that the actions we take are not always visible to others, but we received your report. Whether private or commercial trading activities are involved can only be decided on the basis of the specific individual case. Often the information available through the eBay marketplace is not sufficient to make a final assessment. 

eBay is also cooperating with the authorities and supporting them in related investigations. We put measures in place that are related to the Platform Tax Transparency Act (PStTG) which has been in effect since January 1, 2023. It also aims to combated tax evasion and tax avoidance more effectively.

We wish you continued trading success on eBay!

Best,

Miriam

[stupidamericanprinting]

German Unfair Competition Law (winheller.com)

Protecting yourself against anticompetitive practices

The German Act against Unfair Competition permits corporations and entrepreneurs to defend themselves against competitors' unfair business practices. But, even when a competitor is clearly violating the law, it is advisable to begin by sending a carefully drafted cease and desist letter on your behalf.

If the competitor refuses to cooperate, you can consider a variety of litigation strategies, including

• moving for a preliminary injunction before the competent District Court,
• bringing an action for damages and
• requesting that the court requires your competitor to disclose records related to its anticompetitive activities.

To ensure the prompt enforcement of your claims, an unfair competition attorney can advise you comprehensively regarding the most promising and appropriate course of action.


I'm going for the big fish too though you know, because if this has been clearly illustrated to eBay, yet they allow, I am sure there is an avenue in there some sort of legal action. What's even better, Since eBay is based in San Jose California, and I am an American citizen, it might be better to contact an America lawyer who would work for free and try to get stupidly large sums of money for something like this.

What do you think guys, maybe this is the better route?

Are you having a problem with eBay Inc.? | Mike Agruss Law. (agrusslawfirm.com)

[stupidamericanprinting]

eBay has not replied to any of my inquires for over a month.  So now I bring it to you friends, am I the idiot playing the wrong game?

[stupidamericanprinting]

EU Consumer Protection Law and Information Obligations | eBay

You typically act as a business seller, if you

• buy goods to resell them on eBay.
• sell goods which you have manufactured.
• regularly sell large amounts of goods.
• sell identical or similar items (especially new and unused items) over a longer period of time.
• are an eBay sales agent.
• buy goods for your company.

Indicators of commercial activity due to German legislation:

• operating an eBay-shop
• number of current sales: steady sale of a high number of goods
• type of items sold (new or used; value): the selling of a number of similar navigation devices was classified as evidence of commercial activity – as well as the quotation of 250 batteries in different sizes with reference to the availability of larger quantities.
• a professional website or the usage of professional advertisement 

Please note: This list is not exhaustive and other activities may mean that you are operating as a business. If this is the case, you'll be obliged to fulfill the information obligations on this site.

If any of the above applies, then you have a legal obligation to declare yourself as a business seller. Declaring yourself as a private seller, even though you are acting as a business, is misleading to potential consumers and breaks consumer protection law and eBay policies.